spivy Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Then the auction at Southeby's is not what it is supposed to be? http://www.cigarauctions.co.uk/cohiba-lanceros-p-11957.html http://www.cigarauctions.co.uk/cohiba-lanceros-p-11958.html The first auction that Mitchell had was for a 1994 box. The second partial is most likely a cubatabaco box. The first box could have the habanos chevron on the top right. Also look at the crease of the warranty seal on the bottom left. It is in the proper place. Comparing the pictures you posted compared to what I remember from my box is noticeably different.
canadianbeaver Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 Lisa, C.Gars is not Sotheby's (nor Christie's). Sorry, I am no expert by any means and I am not saying these are not what we say they are. I can only go by what is front of me. I have spoken with others on this board and we think they are real. ***NEW UPDATE*** LCDH Toronto says they can tell me what the scoop is on these cigars. I am heading over now and I shall report!
MrDowse Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Lisa, i read your post before you deleted and i think your reasoning was good, but fair play. Can't you ask your dad to confirm the circumstances?
spivy Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Lisa, Best of luck with what LCDH Toronto. Unfortunately these cigars are not real. Not diplomatic or regular. This is based on my experience with older Cohiba Lancero boxes. If the LCDH tells you they are real I would have a very very hard time trusting anything they say moving forward. If these cigars were acquired in 1990-1992 they should not have the habanos strip on the top right hand corner. Habanos was created in the middle of 1994 and that is when the strips started appearing on the boxes. The B25 boxes were used in conjunction with the vBN25 boxes until 1994. The cellophane was supposedly stopped being used on hand made cigars in 1989/1990. Also whenever cellophane was used on cigars it was slightly longer then the actual cigar so that it could be folded over. The cello was then folded over the bottom of the cigar and put in boxes. The center cigar in cello boxes had the cellophane folded in front so that the shop or the end user could lift out the center cigar without ruining any in the box. The cellophane is also a bit light from my experience but that is not the tell tale sign. The bands on the cigars are cut at different points above the last row of dots. Up until the early early 1990s (not sure if it is 1993 as Trevor puts it on CCW) the bands had circular dots like the following band. This is a 1986 CCE Lastly when you look at the seal of 99% of boxes the seal should be folded down the middle of the left hand crest. If you look closely at the picture on Mitchells site you can see that. Unfortunately based on these discrepancies the cigars are not 1990 Cohiba Lanceros. Diplomatic lanceros had immaculate presentation, whether it was in these type of boxes or the 50 count varnished boxes. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news
canadianbeaver Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 He did not really remember. And he left for Europe last night... Anyway we'll see what LCDH has to say.
GP012 Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Lisa, do you have any photos of the bottom of the box(es)? That may be helpful.
BehikeLover2 Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 You should smoke one and tell us how they are. Even fake cigars used cuban tobacco, so real or not, they still might smoke beautifully. Congrats!
Dbone Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Holy cow! It really doesn't get much better than THAT Enjoy those puppies like there's no tomorrow
canadianbeaver Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 Bad news ... The cigars are junk. Oh well. My dad is still the best, he meant well. Lisa
khomeinist Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Bummer. Cigars aside, your dad is having quite an interesting life! On a positive note, can we discuss frankfurters? Casing on or casing off?
AverageJoe83 Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 You should smoke one and tell us how they are. Even fake cigars used cuban tobacco, so real or not, they still might smoke beautifully. Congrats! And newspaper, banana leaves, string, fingernails, etc. etc. Damn shame. What I would do is sell that unopened box to some silly person who wants to put them in a display case for 50 years! They'll never know!
ramon_cojones Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Sorry to hear that Lisa, curious to hear what they said as far as cues are concerned. Spivy you are a genius. I tried an 86 cce once but it was too wet from its travels.
mk05 Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Ed and Greg are mostly concerned about proliferation of misinformation. Very nice guys, although Ed won't give up the SW to me! *shakes fist*
canadianbeaver Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 There just happened to be a cigar roller from Cuba there today! Arnaldo was there when these were made. He knew on sight they were not right but cut two open just to show me. He threw his hands in the air like , "oy vey!!" Even the box is fake of course. But a great story and I will display them in my cigar lounge at my cottage proudly. Thank you for proving once again not only are you guys generous with compliments, but information and expertise too, even when it does not always end up in the black. Lisa
Puros Y Vino Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Lisa, Best of luck with what LCDH Toronto. Unfortunately these cigars are not real. Not diplomatic or regular. This is based on my experience with older Cohiba Lancero boxes. If the LCDH tells you they are real I would have a very very hard time trusting anything they say moving forward. If these cigars were acquired in 1990-1992 they should not have the habanos strip on the top right hand corner. Habanos was created in the middle of 1994 and that is when the strips started appearing on the boxes. The B25 boxes were used in conjunction with the vBN25 boxes until 1994. The cellophane was supposedly stopped being used on hand made cigars in 1989/1990. Also whenever cellophane was used on cigars it was slightly longer then the actual cigar so that it could be folded over. The cello was then folded over the bottom of the cigar and put in boxes. The center cigar in cello boxes had the cellophane folded in front so that the shop or the end user could lift out the center cigar without ruining any in the box. The cellophane is also a bit light from my experience but that is not the tell tale sign. The bands on the cigars are cut at different points above the last row of dots. Up until the early early 1990s (not sure if it is 1993 as Trevor puts it on CCW) the bands had circular dots like the following band. This is a 1986 CCE Lastly when you look at the seal of 99% of boxes the seal should be folded down the middle of the left hand crest. If you look closely at the picture on Mitchells site you can see that. Unfortunately based on these discrepancies the cigars are not 1990 Cohiba Lanceros. Diplomatic lanceros had immaculate presentation, whether it was in these type of boxes or the 50 count varnished boxes. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news Very interesting observations Mr Spivy. Perhaps you should post a bit more given your 2009 join date? We could always use more insight. While this is surely a heart breaker of a thread for Lisa , it certainly was educational and serves as a cautionary tale of the chicanery that has and continues to exist within the realm of CC's.
canadianbeaver Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 Not a heart breaker. Takes longer than 12 hours and a windfall of 2 boxes of cigars to break this heart. Now if a chocolate cake fell off the roof of the Park Hyatt and I jumped off to catch it.
Smallclub Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Even the box is fake of course. Really? Is he sure of that? Fake "VIP" boxes, when there are tons of these boxes at El Laguito? For example: http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=104074&hl=diplomatic&st=0
Puros Y Vino Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Really? Is he sure of that? Fake "VIP" boxes, when there are tons of these boxes at El Laguito? For example: http://www.friendsof...diplomatic&st=0 Easy box to fake. Not much to it. Black & white for the most part. Probably easier to steal one from El Laguito I'd guess.
Nino Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Not a heart breaker. Takes longer than 12 hours and a windfall of 2 boxes of cigars to break this heart. Now if a chocolate cake fell off the roof of the Park Hyatt and I jumped off to catch it.z That's the spirit ! The first observation I had that was irritating was the Habanos chevron which could not be right for the time period , the cello details came later. Maybe you can give us the story of their provenance. Enjoy them anyway !
ramon_cojones Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Ed and Greg are mostly concerned about proliferation of misinformation. Very nice guys, although Ed won't give up the SW to me! *shakes fist* I've no idea who ed or greg are but seems all you do is take take take homie!
canadianbeaver Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 I cannot give exact provenance today as his highness is traveling abroad. I think he must have bought them at a vendor in Havana and perhaps thought they were kosher. I am going to smoke one tonight when I get home for the heck of it and report .
canadianbeaver Posted July 10, 2012 Author Posted July 10, 2012 OK so here is the autopsy... C'est la vie!
.png.15b5f6bc4159a73805a9f118f79a68ca.png)
Recommended Posts