THose who smoke both Cuban and Non Cuban

[smokeswirl]

Why?

For many years all I could get in the states were non-cuban cigars. And truth be told I smoked them but didnt relly like them. I liked keeping them and maintaining them or smelling them more than I did smoking them but with cuban cigars I would much rather smoke them.

I know the question was if you didnt like smoking why keep buying? But thats another question for another day.

For those of you who smoke cubans whats the attraction to non-cubans? Perhaps the "forbiden fruit" theory in reverse?

[habanohal]

» Why?

»

» For many years all I could get in the states were non-cuban cigars. And

» truth be told I smoked them but didnt relly like them. I liked keeping

» them and maintaining them or smelling them more than I did smoking them

» but with cuban cigars I would much rather smoke them.

»

» I know the question was if you didnt like smoking why keep buying? But

» thats another question for another day.

»

» For those of you who smoke cubans whats the attraction to non-cubans?

» Perhaps the "forbiden fruit" theory in reverse?

THere is none for me. Once I started smokin Cubans, never wenrt back and no desire too. Once you have the best why go back to soething you really didnt enjoy anyway?

[smokeswirl]

That's exactly my point. Why? Why? WHy?

[Ginseng]

» Why?

»

» For many years all I could get in the states were non-cuban cigars. And

» truth be told I smoked them but didnt relly like them. I liked keeping

» them and maintaining them or smelling them more than I did smoking them

» but with cuban cigars I would much rather smoke them.

»

» I know the question was if you didnt like smoking why keep buying? But

» thats another question for another day.

»

» For those of you who smoke cubans whats the attraction to non-cubans?

» Perhaps the "forbiden fruit" theory in reverse?

Like you, I started out smoking NC's. 1) they were accessible, 2) the local tobacconists were able to guide and advise regarding these and 3) there was a great variety to choose from. As for enjoying them, I found many to be quite enjoyable. I tried plenty of cigars and rejected the ones I didn't like but kept buying the ones I did like. Money is too dear to waste burning bad leaves whether they be Cuban, Dominican, Nicaraguan or other. It makes no sense at all unless the underlying motivation was something other than "enjoying smoking a cigar."

For dedicated cigar smokers around the world, Habanas are essentially as accessible as cigars made in non-embargo countries (with respect to the U.S.) Also, one can find NC's that are cheaper as well as more expensive and more plentiful as well as more scarce than their Cuban counterparts. So, the question really becomes one of preference and nothing more. I would argue that there is a far larger variety of smokes (in terms of style, construction and sensory characteristics) that can be found among all the cigars that are non-Cuban. That said, Habanas do offer some unique characteristics that are not present in NC cigars.

By "dedicated cigar smoker" I am referring to one who enjoys and appreciates the singular pleasures of smoking a good cigar. I would not count among this class those who only smoke Cubans because, well, so they can say they only smoke Cubans. Rather, it is simply a consequence of one's desired breadth of choice in seeking pleasureable experiences. If you enjoy only certain profiles associated with Habanas, then by all means, smoke them exclusively. If you value exposure to a breadth of stylistic experiences, then you may seek smokes from off-island.

I, for one, would never want to have to give up my Padrons; neither the $3 2000-series or the $18 Serie-1926. Recently I smoked a LaGloria Cubana Reserva Figurado Felicias and it was a wonderful, satisfying experience. And just a few days ago, I smoked a Trinidad Reyes and also enjoyed it immensely. Neither one is a replacement for the other, but having had both, I feel richer for the experiences.

Wilkey

[Mel]

Well done Gensing!

I smoke what taste good to me........ These days that is mostly Cuban but I still enjoy cigarsn from other origins. I have smoked NC's that I like as much or more than Cubans depending on my desires at the moment.

Last night I decided to smoke a Paretagas Churchill Delux (01) and upon cuttung found it to tight to smoke. I rammed a rod down it four or five times and decided it needed to dry fore a few days. Disapointing!!!!!

I next cut a RA Emenencia and it was tolerable fair. I smoked and enjoyed it but--- The Fuente Opus X was the best of the night in both flavor and construction. Not all Cubans are the best and some NC are great.

[habanablue]

have smoked 99% cubans all my short years of loving this pasttime and being in Aust. have had easy access to them. I enjoy occasianally trying NCs to see what they are up to....Fuentes and Padrons do a good job...will never smoke NCs more than 1% of the time but variety is the spicE of life as they say.

[mgillett]

I started with NCs and then graduated to Cubans (which appears to be quite often the case). I don't mind Padrons and still have quite a few NCs in my humi that will probably take me a while to get through because when I do get the chance to smoke, I don't like to waste my time on something that I know is not as enjoyable as, say, a Monte 2 or 4.

My 2c worth.

[Colt45]

Nice post Ginseng.

My short answer is that there are some great NCs out there.....

Here's some good reading:

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/board_entr...er&descasc=DESC

I've had another of my few remaining Bahia Trinidad robustos since Rob started that thread. Once again, I was simply amazed. It's the type of cigar I just stared at the whole time I smoked it, just not believing so much flavor could come from rolled tobacco. Perhaps it's unfair to bring up a cigar that is no longer available (at least that blend). I'm hoping the Cubans I have will mature into something as good as, or hopefully, something even better than, that cigar.

Now, having said all that, I've all but stopped buying NCs, partially due to space limitations, economics, and that I'm betting on tha Havanas I have developing into great cigars.

[guilow]

I too am one of those that converted to cuban cigars and rarely return to non-cubans. However, I do still smoke one NC -> PAMs. I love that caramel sweet taste in the '64, but especially in the '26. I mostly light up a PAM as a 'change of pace' activity since they are so different from cuban cigars.

[CIGARHead]

» » Why?

» »

» » For many years all I could get in the states were non-cuban cigars. And

» » truth be told I smoked them but didnt relly like them. I liked keeping

» » them and maintaining them or smelling them more than I did smoking them

» » but with cuban cigars I would much rather smoke them.

» »

» » I know the question was if you didnt like smoking why keep buying?

» But

» » thats another question for another day.

» »

» » For those of you who smoke cubans whats the attraction to non-cubans?

» » Perhaps the "forbiden fruit" theory in reverse?

»

» Like you, I started out smoking NC's. 1) they were accessible, 2) the

» local tobacconists were able to guide and advise regarding these and 3)

» there was a great variety to choose from. As for enjoying them, I found

» many to be quite enjoyable. I tried plenty of cigars and rejected the ones

» I didn't like but kept buying the ones I did like. Money is too dear to

» waste burning bad leaves whether they be Cuban, Dominican, Nicaraguan or

» other. It makes no sense at all unless the underlying motivation was

» something other than "enjoying smoking a cigar."

»

» For dedicated cigar smokers around the world, Habanas are essentially as

» accessible as cigars made in non-embargo countries (with respect to the

» U.S.) Also, one can find NC's that are cheaper as well as more expensive

» and more plentiful as well as more scarce than their Cuban counterparts.

» So, the question really becomes one of preference and nothing more. I

» would argue that there is a far larger variety of smokes (in terms of

» style, construction and sensory characteristics) that can be found among

» all the cigars that are non-Cuban. That said, Habanas do offer some unique

» characteristics that are not present in NC cigars.

»

» By "dedicated cigar smoker" I am referring to one who enjoys and

» appreciates the singular pleasures of smoking a good cigar. I would not

» count among this class those who only smoke Cubans because, well, so they

» can say they only smoke Cubans. Rather, it is simply a consequence of

» one's desired breadth of choice in seeking pleasureable experiences. If

» you enjoy only certain profiles associated with Habanas, then by all

» means, smoke them exclusively. If you value exposure to a breadth of

» stylistic experiences, then you may seek smokes from off-island.

»

» I, for one, would never want to have to give up my Padrons; neither the $3

» 2000-series or the $18 Serie-1926. Recently I smoked a LaGloria Cubana

» Reserva Figurado Felicias and it was a wonderful, satisfying experience.

» And just a few days ago, I smoked a Trinidad Reyes and also enjoyed it

» immensely. Neither one is a replacement for the other, but having had

» both, I feel richer for the experiences.

»

» Wilkey

I couldnt have said it better myself Wilkey. I too have a good amount of the Padron Anni and Serie '26 as well as a good collection of OpusX. BUT, once I started to smoke Cubans, they are what I have smoked since. Not because I dont LOVE the Padron and OpusX, I just have found this new world and intend on submersing myself in it. I know I'll pull out one of my quality NCs oneday, but for now I just see it as aging them.

[Spud2]

» For those of you who smoke cubans whats the attraction to non-cubans?

» Perhaps the "forbiden fruit" theory in reverse?

I've smoked alot of bad non-cubans but never a bad cuban! Occassionally keep trying to find a stellar non-cuban without much luck. I guess old habits die hard.

[DocRKS]

I think the original post starts with the assumptive premise that in order to be a "really good cigar" it must be a Cuban product. While I strongly prefer Habana cigars, indeed my personal collection is 95%++ Habana cigars - I stop short in agreeing that any non-Cuban cigar is by definition an inferior product. There are times when I look forward to the differences brought across by my PAM 64 Torps and Imperials, or the Davi Milleniums or the Opus Dbl Coronas... I do not relegate these to 2nd class status because they are not Cuban made - to me they offer a delicious and very enjoyable experience and that is after all why I smoke cigars. Smoke what you like and like what you smoke...and 99 times out a hundred that for me will be a Cuban cigar...but there is that time when a change of taste is really sought after and I truly do enjoy the smokes I listed above.

[Ginseng]

Cigarhead and DocRKS,

Well said.

It's relevant to note that so many things change as we gain more experience and the contexts of those experiences change. It's not at all unlikely that in giving in to a new and fiery infatuation we may realize a deep and engrossing love affair. We also experience changes in our preferences and patterns in overlapping cycles. That's true in life as well as in cigars.

Ok, I'll stop there. Can you tell it's my graduate psychology coursework dirtying up my brain? I'd best go smoke one and get back in the right frame of mind.

Wilkey

[El Presidente]

Outside of Perdomo, I enjoy the construction of a Non Cuban cigar (I find Perdomo's underfilled).

I have never had a plugged Padron or Opus. I have enjoyed both HDM Epicures and LGC El Credito's. I am a fan of VSG Sun Grown and even the Cuesta Rey Maduro No 7. Hell, I even like Puros Indios Toro and the the original Bahia Gold and the original blend SLR.

What I have found however is that a Non Cuban will start well and finish well.....no complaints....but will take ne nowhere in terms of complexity.

For all their failings....and there are many..... a great Cuban cigar experience will commence with certain flavours and transform throughout. It is the journey that I am entraced by. It draws me back.

[waldo]

I still buy and smoke Padrons by the box, just because I enjoy them.

(Not much else though)

[habanohal]

I really never knew I could get Cuban cigars the 1st few years I was smokeing. But now I realalize that in the NC days, I never craved a certain cigar or said" I am going to half to get a few boxes of these".

But with Cubans, I find my self always wanting more. Not in the way of 1 wasnt enough, but didnt want the wonderful , sweet finish ever to end.

Tastes are differant. My brother sees no differance in Cubans and non cubans. Or by way of a great distance of flavors.

I gave him 1 of my 1990 ERDL Demi Tasse. Told him to enjoy the almost refrteshing , tangy, sweet finish.

So after he smoked it he gives me a call and says ..." whats the big deal. I just tasted a woody ,dry tateing cigar".

I tell him that he has no sense of flavor for even the zest of the Monte #5 doesnt do it for him.

But then again I say that tasteing a cigar also depends on what you have eaten or are drinking which brings out differant flavors.

[Mel]

Ok El Prez, you have come right to the point. My #1 complaint with Cuban cigars is the construction!!!

Draw I just want my Friggin cigar to allow some smoky air to pass through. I have not had a Cuban that had a poor flavor profile and I like the journey that it presents but I have cunstruction problems

I have had very very few tight NCs and they are very consistant but not so with Cubans. I know it may not be popular on this site "Friends of Habanos" to knock the main event but friends are open and honest with each other. The Cubans must be aware of this problem because they have the new draw machines to help overcome the issue.

After all that pissing and moaning I do admit that I smoke 95% or more Cubans.

[Van55]

» I've smoked alot of bad non-cubans but never a bad cuban!

You're one of the lucky few. A plugged/tight Cuban cigar is a bad cigar, period. I have smoked to damned many of them -- or rather tried to smoke them, poke them, squeeze them and call them "George" before pitching them.

Like Smokeswirl, I cut my teeth on Non-Cuban cigars because they were legally available. It was only just over 3 years ago that I smoked my first genuine Cuban cigars. I have bought practically nothing else for at least the past 2 years.

That said, variety is the spice of life. I had a considerable stock of Non-Cubans, and it is still fairly considerable. Every now and then I will pull one out and smoke it. If i consciously make the effort not to compare it with the experience of smoking a Cuban cigar and enjoy it for what it is, I can sometimes really enjoy the change of pace.

For example, I lit up a Padron Millenium Edition a few weeks ago and really enjoyed it for what it was.

Here's an analogy that might help. Suppose your favorite cheese is aged cheddar. And you enjoy eating aged cheddars from many different geographic locations. Does that mean that you can never enjoy a Gruyere or a fine Swiss?

[idesign]

Like most, I started out smoking NC's. I still have a humi full of them, but rarely smoke any. When I do it's usually because there's a possibility I'll have to put it down early, or I have a cold and might not be able to really enjoy a CC.

There were many NC's I really loved until I started smoking CC's. Once you make the switch, it's hard as hell to go back...all this talk is giving me a craving.

[swl]

I am one of those who enjoy smoking cigars from different brands and regions. To me, taste is of the essence and then construction. So I do not think the Cubans has the monopoly on the taste department because they sure don't have perfect construction.

Like a well rounded wine lover, you don't want to limit your experience to Napa Valley Cabernet when there are so much more out there including Australian Syrah, French Bordeaux, Barolo, etc.

[Loki]

Great opinions. I made the switch about 5 yrs. ago to smoking habanos. I admit that I smoke 95% habanos but I can't completely give up the NCs. I started on NCs. It would be like forgetting the first girl that I made love to. I still buy boxes of La Flor Dominicana. Why? I have always enjoyed them and will continue to do so.

I like my NCs but I'm involved in a love affair with my Habanos.

[El Presidente]

Mel I agree with you.

The worst year on record was 1999-Sept 2000 when I almost closed the doors and walked away. I estimated at the time that 20% of all Cuban cigars were plugged. In some vitola's it was near 50% (Punch SS1, HDM Gourmet, Lancero come immediately to mind).

Fast forward to today and I would estimate 5%. Habanos s.a will argue that it is lower but my numbers are right. 5% is still poor.

Let's fine tune it further.My 5% number refers to 2003 onward which reflects the progressive introduction of draw machines.

2000-2003 was slightly a crapshoot but in the main the situation improved month to month, year to year.

There is a slight warning here. Aged stocks of 99/00 need to be carefully considered. Often they are cigars that local instore retailers would not consider or stocks that Habanos s.a could not move, were sent back etc etc.

You may get a perfect box of 99...but you run a higher risk.

I look forward to the day when Habanos has the same quality control as Padron or Fuente.

5-10 years away yet.

[smokeswirl]

I can agree that the nons are more consistent. Both construction wise and taste wise, but that doesnt mean better to me. A big-mac is gonna taste the same where ever you get it. But I'd rather have a burger at any real burger joint than at MCDonalds. They may not be as consistent in construction and taste but they are better. Not to go off on a tangent but what accounts for the lack of consistency in cubans.

Raw materials I know are different from year to year but the same follows for Dominican, Honduran or cameroon tobacco. I guess for non-cubans there is a greater pool for simillar type of tobacco especially if they arent puros.

What is different outside of cuba? Do draw machines make that big a difference?

I have had many non-cubans that were seriously underfilled, It was like a tube. And why the 5-10 year timetable. What will change?

[El Presidente]

The construction benchmarks for me are Padron and Fuente.

Construction consistency is excellent.

For Cuba to reach that level all they need is incentive and Total Quality Control systems.

Incentives (as opposed to the stick) have been introduced since 2001. More needs to be done and there are many plans afoot. Altadis understands the nature of global competition but remember that the factories are still Cuban Gov't controlled. Implementation of changes is slow but the tide is irreversible.

It will take 5-10 years to completely change the "who gives a fig" culture. Changes however are well underway.

[smokeswirl]

Incentives (as opposed to the stick) have been introduced since 2001. More

What is "the stick?" Very interesting. Thnaks for the reply