THose who smoke both Cuban and Non Cuban

[Van55]

» I can agree that the nons are more consistent. Both construction wise and

» taste wise, but that doesnt mean better to me. A big-mac is gonna taste

» the same where ever you get it. But I'd rather have a burger at any real

» burger joint than at MCDonalds. They may not be as consistent in

» construction and taste but they are better. Not to go off on a tangent

» but what accounts for the lack of consistency in cubans.

»

» Raw materials I know are different from year to year but the same follows

» for Dominican, Honduran or cameroon tobacco. I guess for non-cubans there

» is a greater pool for simillar type of tobacco especially if they arent

» puros.

»

» What is different outside of cuba? Do draw machines make that big a

» difference?

» I have had many non-cubans that were seriously underfilled, It was like a

» tube. And why the 5-10 year timetable. What will change?

I agree with what Rob says in the post directly above this one.

I will add, however, that the difference between Cuban manufacture and non-Cuban parallels the difference between communism and capitalism. Workers in a communist state have no incentive to give a fig. Those in a capitalist system do -- at least where the enterprise owners reward the workers when the enterprise is profitable.

[swl]

» » I can agree that the nons are more consistent. Both construction wise

» and

» » taste wise, but that doesnt mean better to me. A big-mac is gonna

» taste

» » the same where ever you get it. But I'd rather have a burger at any

» real

» » burger joint than at MCDonalds. They may not be as consistent in

» » construction and taste but they are better. Not to go off on a tangent

» » but what accounts for the lack of consistency in cubans.

» »

» » Raw materials I know are different from year to year but the same

» follows

» » for Dominican, Honduran or cameroon tobacco. I guess for non-cubans

» there

» » is a greater pool for simillar type of tobacco especially if they arent

» » puros.

» »

» » What is different outside of cuba? Do draw machines make that big a

» » difference?

» » I have had many non-cubans that were seriously underfilled, It was like

» a

» » tube. And why the 5-10 year timetable. What will change?

»

»

»

» I agree with what Rob says in the post directly above this one.

»

» I will add, however, that the difference between Cuban manufacture and

» non-Cuban parallels the difference between communism and capitalism.

» Workers in a communist state have no incentive to give a fig. Those in a

» capitalist system do -- at least where the enterprise owners reward the

» workers when the enterprise is profitable.

To add to Van's post above, in a capitalist world, workers who couldn't roll a perfect cigars can be fired relatively easier when compared to a worker in a Communist society. Therefore there is a lot less incentive or stick in this case for workers to pay attention.

[El Presidente]

In the not too distant past recognition within the factory came through 1. length of service and 2. The factory's meeting of production targets. There were always cases of individual rollers receiving high recognition for their art but it was rare to see a roller reach this level while under 50 years of age. The stick was a result of not meeting production targets here all workers were forced to work additional hours and occassionaly Sunday. The system enshrined the culture of "Get them out regardless".

The arrival of rollers such as Hamlet Paredes (33 from memory), Arnaldo Brinones (38) and Ramses (33) showcases a little of how things have changed. Factories are actively promoting exceptional young talent. They are also providing a fast tracking of young talent through and into Supervisory and quality control roles.

The emphasis is on quality. Of the 24000 cigars rolled per day in the Partagas Factory, 6,000 go through the draw machines. Each batch tested can be tracked back to the roller. Records are kept and both rewards (bonuses, time off, prizes, awards etc) and punishments (warnings of continuous inferior work leading eventually to dismissal) are issued.

Whereas in the past rewarding the individual was heresy has been replaced by individual achievement rewards, reflects and enhances the group as a whole.

In essence what is changing (albeit gradually) is an understanding that total numbers comes second to total quality control.

[Ginseng]

» The arrival of rollers such as Hamlet Paredes (33 from memory), Arnaldo

» Brinones (38) and Ramses (33) showcases a little of how things have

» changed. Factories are actively promoting exceptional young talent. They

» are also providing a fast tracking of young talent through and into

» Supervisory and quality control roles.

Rob,

Based on my dozen+ years in various positions in industrial production and development (as well as candid conversations with many senior scientists, engineers and managers) this approach has been shown to often be disastrous for a number of reasons. I hope that the Cubans will find better success with this strategy as in the U.S. this model has frequently led to a) the removal of experts from their domain of greatest contribution and the creation of unwilling or incompetent managers.

Please take my comments in the spirit in which they are intended.

Wilkey

edited for clarity

[skid11]

Well this is a pretty loaded question on a site dedicated to cuban cigars.............. Glad you called it "Friends of Habanos.." El Pres as "Friends of Cubans Cigars" would be FOCC, say no more.

To say that cubans only make outstanding Cigars is to say that French only make outstanding wine............. Sure they do but so do many other countries.

Personally I started smoking non cubans and would sing the praises of Padron 3000 and Art.Fuente anyday but as I delved more and more into cubans I would have to admit that apart from the above makers most non cubans IMHO are very one dimensional, pleasant enough but a cuban does as a general rule of thumb take you a bit deeper............. I'll stop there as it's getting heavy man.

Viva la Cuban;-)

[Ginseng]

» Personally I started smoking non cubans and would sing the praises of

» Padron 3000 and Art.Fuente anyday but as I delved more and more into

» cubans I would have to admit that apart from the above makers most non

» cubans IMHO are very one dimensional, pleasant enough but a cuban does as

» a general rule of thumb take you a bit deeper............. I'll stop there

» as it's getting heavy man.

»

» Viva la Cuban;-)

I wholeheartedly agree.

Wilkey

[El Presidente]

Wilkey.

I rememer the first time I went through the Partagas Factory. In the quality control section, the three men in their 60's had their heads on the table taking a nap ....seriously.

They will lose little with the injection of some youth.

[Lemon]

For me, starting this delicious hobby with Cubans was a natural choice. They're easy to get here and a lot cheaper than NC's. I like to smoke NC's too, whatever pleases my tastebuds. I like to keep some NC's in my humidor for variety. A PAM'64 or an OpusX, those are special smokes for me, because they're so damn hard for me to get. They are also some of my favorite smokes, so I save them for some occasions.

I think it's silly to only smoke Cubans for the reason that you want to give off an image, an image of being somehow specialized in one area. If you simply like Cubans more, that's fine by me. Why smoke what you don't like? Like some have said earlier, you think Cubans are more complex than NC's. If that's what you think, I think it's only natural that you smoke Cubans. Me, however, with my very limited experience, I haven't developed a sense that would be too picky when it comes to cigars. I have too much out there that I haven't tried. Perhaps one day it will be narrowed down to Cubans only ;-)

[Ginseng]

» Wilkey.

»

» I rememer the first time I went through the Partagas Factory. In the

» quality control section, the three men in their 60's had their heads on

» the table taking a nap ....seriously.

»

» They will lose little with the injection of some youth.

Oh my goodness.

Were they drunk? Because then that would really be bad.

But seriously Rob, I understand your point. They may not have much to lose on the QC side, but I hope the star rollers can make a happy transition to the supervisory side. Most artists and engineers I know do or would suck as managers.

I'm afraid to ask...how long ago was that?

Wilkey

[studio253]

If you've never had a bad cuban cigar you are very lucky..I agree with the above posts that it has mostly been a construction issue but there are just some lines that I can't stand...I don't find that I have to let my NCs sit in my humi because they are still going through their sick period. I'm a Partagas fiend but always have a ton of Opus X, Pardron Annis and Ashton VSGs in my endtable unit. My absolute go to line is the Fuente Don Carlos line...I absolutely love the Cameroon wrapper. While I agree that a lot of NCs suck they can't all be dismissed as crap...:-)

[Tampa1257]

» If you've never had a bad cuban cigar you are very lucky..I agree with the

» above posts that it has mostly been a construction issue but there are

» just some lines that I can't stand...I don't find that I have to let my

» NCs sit in my humi because they are still going through their sick period.» I'm a Partagas fiend but always have a ton of Opus X, Pardron Annis and

» Ashton VSGs in my endtable unit. My absolute go to line is the Fuente Don

» Carlos line...I absolutely love the Cameroon wrapper. While I agree that a

» lot of NCs suck they can't all be dismissed as crap...:-)

Interesting note, Because all NC tobacco is Cooked, it is no wonder that they never go through a "Sick Period".

[smokeswirl]

» » If you've never had a bad cuban cigar you are very lucky..I agree with

» the

» » above posts that it has mostly been a construction issue but there are

» » just some lines that I can't stand...I don't find that I have to let

» my

» » NCs sit in my humi because they are still going through their sick

» period.» I'm a Partagas fiend but always have a ton of Opus X,

» Pardron Annis and

» » Ashton VSGs in my endtable unit. My absolute go to line is the Fuente

» Don

» » Carlos line...I absolutely love the Cameroon wrapper. While I agree

» that a

» » lot of NCs suck they can't all be dismissed as crap...:-)

»

» Interesting note, Because all NC tobacco is Cooked, it is no wonder that» they never go through a "Sick Period".

Chuck it's too bad so many of us in the US have this instant gratifiation syndrome. Well if you dont want to deal with the sick period buy aged

[Mel]

I like to enjoy the tobaccos for what they are. Dominican is not like Nicaragua and Honduras is not Jamaica. Cuba is only one island producing tobacco and it puts out a great product but I like diversity and enjoy tobacco from the other regions.

I do find it odd that Cuban cigars are put up against the whole lot.

My dream come true is that Cuban tobacco would be sent to Carlito Fuente to be rolled and the Padron boys could look on.;-)

[El Rushbo]

I honestly do enjoy the flavor of some of the better dominican's. The Padron Ann. Series are wonderful smokes and I've grown to enjoy the Fuente Hemingway's as well. I also picked up a box (in a nicely finished humidor box) of the H. Umann 160th Ann. Belicoso's on sale. They are truly a pleasure to smoke (great draw/burn/aroma....more importantly a very different blend).