and they said it couldn't be done!

[Ken Gargett]

Bring on the World Cup

Seriously, the fact that the Kiwis are worried is music to my ears!

I have nothing but respect for Kiwi Rugby ( I back them everytime the play NSW "Tahs)....but to beat you on home soil would be just the entree for rolling you into "Oztralia" in a pecking order level or just behind Tasmania

The S15 final was full of flaws from both teams and officialdom. Still, we beat crusaders last round regular comp, beat Blues, won final. Excuses a plenty, result the same.

See you in NZ!

it is possible to see this game as simply kiwis trying to get their inevitable choking out of the way early, but for all the 'you can't beat the crusaders...', we beat them twice this year, thrashed them last year. you have to go back to 09 since they last pipped us.

agree with the curious placing of just where kicks went out but seriously, and i know it is part of kiwi DNA to whinge, but if you are reduced to continually bagging no one but the touch judge bcause the ref was not only so obviously beneficial to the crusaders but a kiwi as well, people will actually start to think you are from nsw.

and whilst i also would back any kiwi team against nsw (i refuse to use that ridiculous nickname they gave themselves), i would go further and probably add england. tho prefer that to be a nil all draw.

must say that in all the years i have watched brad thorn in both codes, that trip was the only dirty play i ever saw from him. must be getting desparate.

and respect for kiwi rugby without question; and certain players but far less so for some individuals (and that walking off the field against france refusing to shake hands was one of the worst, poorest things i ever saw on a sporting field, and i suspect most of them wish they could rewind), but surely if the winning captain has not yet spoken in a final, you don't walk off. he could easily have checked. at the very least, mccaw is guilty of poor judgement and stupidity.

[El Presidente]

must say that in all the years i have watched brad thorn in both codes, that trip was the only dirty play i ever saw from him. must be getting desparate.

and respect for kiwi rugby without question; and certain players but far less so for some individuals (and that walking off the field against france refusing to shake hands was one of the worst, poorest things i ever saw on a sporting field, and i suspect most of them wish they could rewind), but surely if the winning captain has not yet spoken in a final, you don't walk off. he could easily have checked. at the very least, mccaw is guilty of poor judgement and stupidity.

I played rugby until age 36 in Oz, England, Spain, France, Oz again.

To be fair to the Kiwi Crusaders the post celebrations at Suncorp on the weekend were a schemozzle. Cut them the benefit of the doubt.

To Brad Thorn, I tip my hat. One of the greatest atheletes I have seen. I challenge anyone in Rugby to say they have not gone (in desperation) for the "Trip". So be it, you or I in the same situation would have done the same.

[Ken Gargett]

I played rugby until age 36 in Oz, England, Spain, France, Oz again.

To be fair to the Kiwi Crusaders the post celebrations at Suncorp on the weekend were a schemozzle. Cut them the benefit of the doubt.

To Brad Thorn, I tip my hat. One of the greatest atheletes I have seen. I challenge anyone in Rugby to say they have not gone (in desperation) for the "Trip". So be it, you or I in the same situation would have done the same.

prepared to concede that re mccaw - always had a lot of time for him, both as a player and a person. but whatever, it was stupid. i would struggle to see him as deliberately disrespecting the reds.

and there is no greater fan of brad thorn than myself. one of the greats of both codes. always a role model. but no, i don't think that trip is what we or a lot of people would have done. it was well behind play so very far from last resort. it was wide open so it was going to be seen (and penalised within kicking distance in a tight match). and it was obviously deliberate. as i say, only time i have ever seen it from him that i recall. and he/they paid dearly. deservedly so. he really should have got the yellow, if the ref had a spine and was not a kiwi.

other than that, he had a terrific game in many respects (their lineout was wonky but that seemed more the throw in than anything else), and you could argue he blew the game when he didn't pass to unmarked players next to the line. that could have put it out of reach for us. but to be honest, if he says he scored, i have no doubt he did. and i would not take the word of many players, for them or us. that said, there was simply no way that you could see it in that mess so could have no other descision.

[El Presidente]

prepared to concede that re mccaw - always had a lot of time for him, both as a player and a person. but whatever, it was stupid. i would struggle to see him as deliberately disrespecting the reds.

and there is no greater fan of brad thorn than myself. one of the greats of both codes. always a role model. but no, i don't think that trip is what we or a lot of people would have done.

Crap. I have done it numerous times. I have even seen the illustrious John Eales do it against Lauries back in 82.

Generally it is a reflex action. To be honest I have done it intentionally aginst faster better players (that would be most).

At schoolboys or club back in those days only a 20% chance of being pinged by the Ref. Different these days with sanctioned appointed refs/touch judges at the top levels.

You do what you have to do. Sometimes you do what your brain instinctively tells you to do .....and then you say "crap"

[Ken Gargett]

Crap. I have done it numerous times. I have even seen the illustrious John Eales do it against Lauries back in 82.

Generally it is a reflex action. To be honest I have done it intentionally aginst faster better players (that would be most).

At schoolboys or club back in those days only a 20% chance of being pinged by the Ref. Different these days with sanctioned appointed refs/touch judges at the top levels.

You do what you have to do. Sometimes you do what your brain instinctively tells you to do .....and then you say "crap"

"Crap. I have done it numerous times."

well, forgive me for not immediately equating you and thorn. can't think how i missed that.

he had plenty of time. made a deliberate movement. it was not instinctive - it is very clear that it was not instinctive. he took his chances. take a look at it. i wondered when i saw it live. there is no doubt when you see it replayed.

i know exactly what you mean but on this occasion, that was not the situation, especially for a player of thorn's (and presumably your own) experience!

in other words, i raise your crap and send more back your way.

[El Presidente]

"Crap. I have done it numerous times."

well, forgive me for not immediately equating you and thorn. can't think how i missed that.

he had plenty of time. made a deliberate movement. it was not instinctive - it is very clear that it was not instinctive. he took his chances. take a look at it. i wondered when i saw it live. there is no doubt when you see it replayed.

i know exactly what you mean but on this occasion, that was not the situation, especially for a player of thorn's (and presumably your own) experience!

in other words, i raise your crap and send more back your way.

Fair point. But I did say I did it intentionally most of the time.

As an aside I use to rectie the following before I ran on anywhere around the world when I was playing rugby. It was a prayer (beyond you). Taught to me by a legend of Australian Rugby (I will tell you whom privately).

"Into the gates of hell I go

my previous battles the devil does not know

Victory or defeat is not the treasure

The blood you give the only measure

Let I meet this challenge with conscience clear

My soul to the Lord with no regret

Set the standard high and clear

know in your heart no-one will shed a tear"

Corny I know. Still I remember it to this day.

[Ken Gargett]

Fair point. But I did say I did it intentionally most of the time.

As an aside I use to rectie the following before I ran on anywhere around the world when I was playing rugby. It was a prayer (beyond you). Taught to me by a legend of Australian Rugby (I will tell you whom privately).

"Into the gates of hell I go

my previous battles the devil does not know

Victory or defeat is not the treasure

The blood you give the only measure

Let I meet this challenge with conscience clear

My soul to the Lord with no regret

Set the standard high and clear

know in your heart no-one will shed a tear"

Corny I know. Still I remember it to this day.

you actually recited that before every game and still didn't play for the wallabies?

i think that is probably one more vote for the dark side!

[El Presidente]

you actually recited that before every game and still didn't play for the wallabies?

i think that is probably one more vote for the dark side!

Recital one thing, talent another

[cigarmonologues]

the most serious international rugby tournament outside internationals themselves - the super 15 rugby competition.

Whilst I have to take some considerable issue with this statement... It was brilliant to see the Reds beat the Crusaders at the weekend.

[frenchkiwi]

like the poetry before going on the field - that's part of the romance of the great game that is rugby that isn't often sung now that it's become another pro sport. it's certainly a huge part of the french rugby culture i grew up in, la troisieme mi-temps, daniel herrero "le guerrier bandana" and all his rugby eulogies, pierre albaladejo commentating, passion, songs, fisticuffs, blood and heroism in the mud. It's slower to go over there than in anglo-saxon countries like NZ (where i've been a bit disappointed every time i've played to be honest - not enough culture around the game anymore!) but i can see it slowly losing its grip all the same.

what position(s) Rob? (not winger i hope!)

just to make it clear, despite my teasing it was obvious thorn left his foot trailing ever-so-slightly ... and cooper made the most of it after his poor punt as first fives are wont to do. that's why i've always enjoyed putting big hits on first fives as much as the next player.

anyway the real rugby is about to start, albeit with diminished teams (-21 boks for the away games!!), advance australia fair, if the wallabies beat us and take out the cup you should exercise that wishful clause in your constitution and annex us, no-one will notice. john o neill can be PM, quade for maori king, we won't care by then. But the greatest all black teams have been driven by fear of losing and that fear is about to reach its highest level ever so the all blacks will be a force to reckon with, as they were last year.

my wish is that all nations arrive full strength at the cup, all hell is unleashed, trenches are dug, and the winner beats them one by one with panache. (a woeful woeful english side making the final at the last WC is a blow to its reputation and must be atoned for... kind of like that very poor german side making the football world cup final in 2002).

my big game will be nz v france at eden park. i was last there for that very fixture in 1989. can't wait.