Wrapper Removal Experiment

[Colt45]

Given the recent discussion on wrapper colors and oil, I decided to try a wrapper removal test of my own, using an '06 Bolivar Corona Extra from cabinet.

The cigar was consistent with the others I've smoked from this box.

With wrapper, it was very good - very nice body, leather, some fruit elements - a real delight and I was tempted to leave it be. But a solid third or so in

I removed the wrapper by picking away at the triple cap windings and freeing the wrapper.

The first thing I did was smell the now removed wrapper, which had the sweet perfume and barnyard aroma I'd smelled at cold. Smelling the now bared

binder showed none of these aromas, but simply a rather bland tobacco. These cigars in the box don't show much oil and are a bit leathery to the touch,

but the wrapper now showed a nice even sheen of oil. The binder showed no sign of oils whatsoever.

Initial draws on the unwrapped cigar showed the same core flavors, but missing something that had been. As I continued to smoke, I felt it was a sense

of lightness, nuance, and balance. The cigar continued to become heavier, darker - like what I'd call pond mung. It did not get harsh or bitter, but I could

not help but consider it "nasty". There was also a very noticeable change in ash color - from what I consider a typical medium or so gray to almost

black.

I went into the experiment with an open mind and little in the way of expectation - for this one cigar the difference was much greater than anticipated.

While the very core remained relatively the same, I feel the wrapper, or lack of, dramatically impacted the overall character, balance, dimension, and

outright flavor of this cigar.

Please excuse me while I go try and get this taste out of my mouth....... (where's that rum bottle......)

[android]

Nic job Colt...one for the team so to speak. That's why the moderators get paid the Big Buck's!

[laficion]

Great experience Ross

I have always thought that the importance of the wrapper on the

overall taste of a cigar has always been underestimated.

Over the years I keep hearing that the wrapper only represents 3% or 7% or 10%, etc. etc.......

Whatever the percentage, the wrapper does have an importance.

The tobacco grown expressly for wrappers are truly pampered , they are the most protected ,

they are the plants that are the most watched over and taken care of, they are the most oily

the most elastic , the most aromatic, how can it not be an essential part of the cigar's character,

It's balance and taste ?

A Ferrari is a Ferrari, it''s a whole, without it's elegance and it's

body design, it would just be...... well ,..................just a car.

[Trevor2118]

Nic job Colt...one for the team so to speak. That's why the moderators get paid the Big Buck's!

We get paid?? No-one told me!

[maalouly]

Great Experiment Ross!

[gigabyte056]

Did you by chance take pictures of your experiment?

[sloth]

When it comes to wrappers and flavor, I'm a true believer. But, the "pond mung" thing and the overall nastiness... I would think that happens because the packing of the tobacco has changed. I've had good-flavor cigars turn when I get burn issues or if the wrapper breaks. When a wrapper breaks you can see the binder expanded.

A friend of mine has a theater room that we smoke in... Surprisingly it has only happen once, but I have had cut a cigar, put it down, and since it was dark I put the wrong end in my mouth. I can't remember what the cigar was, some NC, and I don't remember the wrapper of it, but I did try to keep smoking the cigar after it unraveled. The cigar expanded, the ember became unruly, and the ash had a mind of its own.

Without the pressure of the wrapper the cigar just turns into a bunch of burning leaves.

[semery74]

Doesn't it seem that the wrapper plays more of a mechanical and aesthetic role than that of an ingredient in flavor? Once removed air flow can channel all around the burning amber.

[Colt45]

Did you by chance take pictures of your experiment?

Unfortunately, no.

Without the pressure of the wrapper the cigar just turns into a bunch of burning leaves.

In my case, there was no expansion / pressure release - the bound cigar retained it's shape and remained well behaved.

But your assessment of burning leaves is right on.

Doesn't it seem that the wrapper plays more of a mechanical and aesthetic role than that of an ingredient in flavor? Once removed air flow can channel all around the burning amber.

All the leaves burn at the same time, so I'm not sure that the wrapper would restrict airflow.

Overall, in my mind I keep going back to wrapper oil content, which is something Bassman and a number of others also mentioned in the wrapper color thread.

I'm beginning to think it may be even more important than previously suspected. This was but one cigar, and I'll try again with another soon. It's easy

enough to do for anyone interested. I might suggest trying it with a cigar you are familiar with, and one with decent length (not a perla for instance).

Oh, Android and Trev - I've been told the check is in the mail

[Ghabanos]

[quote name='Colt45' date='May 15 2011, 09:53 PM'

Oh, Android and Trev - I've been told the check is in the mail

how do I get nominated/hired for part of this moderator action?

Anyway, excellent/interesting experiment...

[Stalebread]

Thanks for a very interesting experiment and observations.

[Dbone]

Thank you Colt for sharing the results of your experiment. I had only done this once with a Lanceros which had a mold on the wrapper. It sure is difficult to come to a solid conclusion with anything cigars, but I am convinced the wrapper plays a key role due to the fact it's what your lips taste. And if you French kiss a cigar like Rob, your tongue. It'd be like eating a candy bar with no chocolate outer layer. Or fried chicken with skin removed. One would not loose the core flavors, but a piece to the flavor puzzle would be missing (even though it's total weight or mass in relation is very minor).

Thank you Ross for sparking a great conversation.

[redlir]

Cool thread. The first time I read through it, I had cigar band in my mind instead of wrapper for some reason LOL... I was thinking we finally went off the deep end!

[Colt45]

how do I get nominated/hired for part of this moderator action?

Be careful what you wish for!

It'd be like eating a candy bar with no chocolate outer layer. Or fried chicken with skin removed. One would not loose the core flavors, but a piece to the flavor puzzle would be missing.

Andy, the food analogy is exactly what I was thinking when I was finished. For me, the unwrapped cigar would be like eating a chicken that had be boiled in

unseasoned water, while the cigar with wrapper would be the chicken roasted with herbs.

The first time I read through it, I had cigar band in my mind instead of wrapper for some reason LOL...

You can do the experiment of smoking through the band

[Van55]

I think the design of the experiment is flawed. We all know that the tastes and smoking characteristics of a cigar are apt to cange as we smoke it. Sometimes better, sometimes worse.

For me, a better design would be to smoke two cigars side by side -- one with wrapper; one sans.

Your judgments from your experiment are quite interesting. Are you willing to sacrifice another cigar for the sake of science?

[Colt45]

I think the design of the experiment is flawed. We all know that the tastes and smoking characteristics of a cigar are apt to cange as we smoke it. Sometimes better, sometimes worse.

For me, a better design would be to smoke two cigars side by side -- one with wrapper; one sans.

Your judgments from your experiment are quite interesting. Are you willing to sacrifice another cigar for the sake of science?

I'll try to articulate my thought process.....

First, I'm not trying to prove or disprove anything - the wrapper thread prompted me to give this a try for myself. I guess the findings of anything like

this are relatively anecdotal - all any of us can do is use our experience to try and paint a picture.

The cigar used was the tenth I've smoked from this box. They had all been very consistent in appearance, construction, and flavor. I decided to try it this

way specifically to try and take out, as much as possible, the inconsistency aspect. While cigars can and do change during smoking, I'd have had absolutely

no idea of the qualities of a separate cigar. Prior to removing the wrapper, the cigar used was very consistent with the nine smoked prior, and I'm confident

that it would have remained so - at least as confident as I can be without being able to know for certain.

As mentioned, I will be trying this again soon. The cigars in mind are Upmann Sir Winston and / or Bolivar Corona Gigantes - both cigars (and boxes) I've

had a few years experience with.

[Ginseng]

Well done, Ross. I'm going to go grill some fish and I just might give this a try while I'm out there.

Wilkey

[El Presidente]

Great post Ross The elements a wrapper adds to a cigar is always a great (and controverisial) topic for discussion.

I have done enough experiments (side by side + changing of wrappers on customs where I can control blend + changing of wrappers on general production cigars) to come to a personal conclusion.

Wrappers influence flavour 100%. Thay may only acount for the minority % of cigar leaf but they change the construct of flavour. The core flavours may be the same but I have always noted a "twist" in its delivery dependent on the wrapper (or lack thereof).

I always get confused when people say that wrapper accounts for 15% or 20% or 30% of flavour. If a wrapper changes the flavour profile you are experiencing, then isn't it in reality a "total" change?

A propper Guinness Beef Pie is a great thing. It is a good thing without the Guinness but it is not a Guinness Beef Pie. You can substitute the Guinness with another stout and you will get close but it is not a Guinness Beef Pie.

[mkz]

Nice scientific work and interesting reading Ross!

[frenchkiwi]

Wow you are definitely putting it all on the line for this experiment here. what a Sacrifice!

Thanks for sharing Colt.

[although i will be having nightmares about tearing wrappers off nice CEs now. i did have a bad dream about a cigar wrapper coming off a few nights ago - no jokes]

[OZCUBAN]

Thanks for sharing Ross

will have to try this myself one day

cheers Steve

[PigFish]

Thanks for sharing mate. I have done this experiment many times with cigars at different stages. My conclusions are different but that is not why I posted. I posted to encourage those reading to partake in the "discovery mindset." I mean why quote the conclusions of another, you, me... anybody when the experiment, while not scientific is so simple to perform for yourself?

My question regarding the negative effects pertain to that of airflow. I have noticed in cigars that have wrapper and binder leakage a phenomenon that I would describe similar to yours after you removed the wrapper. Did you notice any draw differential?

Next time you decide to do this do not remove the entire wrapper. Make a small shield of card stock so that you cannot tell whether the cigar has burned past the wrapper removal point and see if you can guess where the wrapper begins again. I have done this several times and frankly could not tell where the wrapper restarted. The key of course is to try and isolate the wrapper as the only variable. Keeping a portion of the wrapper goes a long way to make sure the cigar still funnels air correctly. One thing that struck me about your experiment along with the taste was the ash color going black. Poorly combusted tobacco burns very dark (another of my own conclusions) and I think that this may have been a problem with your sample.

I think the next time I try this experiment I am going to segment a cigar into sections and label them to smoke in a pipe. I will ask my wife to remove the wrapper in a couple of the samples and shred them up for me. I want to see if I can accurately guess which samples included or excluded the wrapper so that I can make my conclusions blind.

Anyway... congrats for graduating out of the class of flat earthers!!! -LOL -R

[Stalebread]

I've done a similar experiment. On a robusto size cigar I smoked about a half an inch. Then right off the burn I used a knife to score the wrapper around the cigar. Next, another cut was made about an inch down closer to the cap. Only that section of the wrapper was removed and I kept on smokin'. This was six or so years ago (and on a non-Cuban, at that) so I had even less experience than I do now. But I remember the difference of wrapper-on / wrapper-off / wrapper-on was significant.

[Colt45]

My question regarding the negative effects pertain to that of airflow. .....

Ray, I know exactly what you mean with regards to airflow - the draw and burn of this cigar did not change perceptibly. The ash color threw me a bit, as

I'm also one who subscribes to the combustion theory - but now, as is often the case with these things, I'm left with questions.

My one thought at the time was that what we usually see and therefore associate with ash color, is the spent wrapper. When I look at the burning filler of

a cigar versus the outer ash, that "core" is normally darker that what I see on the outside (save perhaps the very center).

So perhaps the single layer of wrapper burns at a higher temp, or perhaps it's a matter of oil content, or perhaps it's an anomaly with this one cigar. Again,

I've no idea, and these were just my thoughts at the time.

I will attempt the blind partial wrapper removal in the near future, but I'll probably try it again this same way again first to see what happens. I also encourage

anybody interested to give it a try as it is quite easy to do.

[PigFish]

Ray, I know exactly what you mean with regards to airflow - the draw and burn of this cigar did not change perceptibly. The ash color threw me a bit, as

I'm also one who subscribes to the combustion theory - but now, as is often the case with these things, I'm left with questions.

My one thought at the time was that what we usually see and therefore associate with ash color, is the spent wrapper. When I look at the burning filler of

a cigar versus the outer ash, that "core" is normally darker that what I see on the outside (save perhaps the very center).

So perhaps the single layer of wrapper burns at a higher temp, or perhaps it's a matter of oil content, or perhaps it's an anomaly with this one cigar. Again,

I've no idea, and these were just my thoughts at the time.

I will attempt the blind partial wrapper removal in the near future, but I'll probably try it again this same way again first to see what happens. I also encourage

anybody interested to give it a try as it is quite easy to do.

One thing Ross is that it makes for interesting conversation when you discuss the topic amongst those who have experienced this for themselves. As usual I have a minority opinion... Imagine that!!!! -LOL

While I will continue to carry my opinion forward I do have to think that this is another one of those very gray areas that could, depending on the cigar and the wrapper, make little to huge difference in the smoking experience depending on what cigar you inevitably pick.

I guess that overall I will have to categorize it this way, with an analogy! I have never liked the RASS. Years ago, when the RASS was the buzz for a great cigar (I guess it still is) I wondered what I was missing and I bought some. They stunk! I bought some more. They stunk and I bought some more... and so on. I was so interested in finding what others rated highly I was ignoring my own tastes in search of theirs. As a result I smoked a lot of crappy cigars and was rewarded with wasted time and bad smoking experiences. But there was more! It taught me a lot of lessons about smoking, tastes, trends, the mob... and cigars in general. I have smoked one great RASS cigar and that was a 1995 from a friend. There are likely good RASS cigars out there, I just never seem to get them. The wrapper test is like the RASS test for me. When I try it, I conclude little difference and that adds up to where the leaf has likely originated on the plant and for what purpose it has been selected for a wrapper in the first place. I am satisfied. As for the RASS I am also satisfied. I don't like them! I am happy to call them second rate cigars but in the process generalizing about all of them and impugning the tastes of those who like them, perhaps unfairly. I guess that is just the way the wrapper crumbles!!!

Cheers amigo. If I ever get into your neck of the woods we will shred wrappers together and I can watch you get drunk while we argue about the difference!!! -LOL Thanks again for sharing.

-Ray