Che's Famous Picure

[ZinZan]

Such a noble man.

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertai...rk-2218369.html

[Fuzz]

[mazolaman]

On my first visit to Cuba,I found this a great irony.

That this image is used almost as a brand in itself,a classic tool of capitalism in a would be communist country.

As the article says,and previous articles i have read about Korda,the image has been massively misapropriated.

While Guevara was certainly no angel,it is a shame that an iconic image that has been a symbol of defiance has become another brand that we are bombarded with to buy some kind of shite.

[dicko]

I laugh at the rich kids at uni who wear these t-shirts or have the badge on their shoulder bag when you know in 10 years they will be a corporate sell out!!

[snickers99]

His picture is cool looking but I expect the fad will fade. When I see it I am reminded of communism and all of its attendant evils; tyranny, opression, mass murder, injustice, the abolition of human rights, & etc. For me it may as well be Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hirohito, Chavez, Saddam Hussein, or, of course, Castro. The list could go on and on.

I'll go even further. The commercialization of his image is delicious irony and a thumb in the eye to socialists everywhere. I'll contend that the exploitation of Che's image is far more noble than the man himself. Why? Because capitalism is the economic cornerstone of human freedom. Che was a missionary for Tyranny.

[bassman]

Che's image would not have been exploited if he did not die young.

[mazolaman]

His picture is cool looking but I expect the fad will fade. When I see it I am reminded of communism and all of its attendant evils; tyranny, opression, mass murder, injustice, the abolition of human rights, & etc. For me it may as well be Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Hirohito, Chavez, Saddam Hussein, or, of course, Castro. The list could go on and on.

I'll go even further. The commercialization of his image is delicious irony and a thumb in the eye to socialists everywhere. I'll contend that the exploitation of Che's image is far more noble than the man himself. Why? Because capitalism is the economic cornerstone of human freedom. Che was a missionary for Tyranny.

I'll edit my original comment.

Oh dear,I can almost see the flag flying.......

Brings a tear to the eye.....having a thumb in it.

Thank some kind of deity that we live within a system where everybody wins,and at the expense of no one else.

Sounds like utopia.....I wonder what the literal translation of utopia is?

This was a thread about a piece of art,and it's changing place/use and meaning in society,not a soap box.

[snickers99]

This was a thread about a piece of art,and it's changing place/use and meaning in society,not a soap box.

No soap box intended. I'll boil it down to this:

Some people are upset that the image of Che Guevara has been commercialized. I am not.

[El Presidente]

I laugh at the rich kids at uni who wear these t-shirts or have the badge on their shoulder bag when you know in 10 years they will be a corporate sell out!!

It is good to be a socialist at 19. Mortgages and schhol fees take care of it by the time your 39

[Rehman]

It is good to be a socialist at 19. Mortgages and schhol fees take care of it by the time your 39

It's as they say: "If you aren't a liberal in youth you have no heart; if you aren't a conservative in maturity you have no brain."

[mazolaman]

schucks,I got me no brain!

Must be the free school I went to.........

[Turrbo]

It's as they say: "If you aren't a liberal in youth you have no heart; if you aren't a conservative in maturity you have no brain."

Took the words right out of my mouth...

Once you pay for something from your hard earned money and another person gets it for free your eyes will start opening up.

As for the image, it's a GREAT shot, but it may as well be bobo the clown. The angle, the look, it's all spot on, could be one of the most recognizable photos of our time hands down.

But in the end we must all remember, one persons freedom fighter is another persons terrorist. The problem here is that there is no correct or true definition of "freedom".

If ive offended some of you im sorry it's 5am and I've been up since 2am because my one year old won't go to sleep, expect an edit around noon...

[kruler]

I took this on a late night in Havana last month.

I don't know why it shows up rotated, it's right side up on my phone and comp

[Peter11216]

No soap box intended. I'll boil it down to this:

Some people are upset that the image of Che Guevara has been commercialized. I am not.

I don't care if it is commercialized or not, either. But probably not for the same reason. First, how long to copyrights (i.e. government grants of market distorting monopoly rights) over images last? And does copyright law actually allow someone to not exercise his government granted right for decades and just one day reassert them? Wow, I hope not.

For some reason, I see this as mostly a copyright issue! No one should be able to dictate what people can do with this image that has been in use for decades, anymore than Disney should be able to sue entrepreneurs who want to use Mickey Mouse pictures.

On the other hand, in all fairness I guess, if Disney can sue people for using Mickey without permission, I suppose this guy should be able to with people who use his Che picture.

No doubt that it is ironic, though.

[mazolaman]

re copyright;

Ironically,this isn't the guy who took the photograph.

The photograph was taken by Alberto Korda,and is named Guerillero Heroico.

It could be said that it isn't the property of Jim Fitzpatrick to give away,but there you go.

Here's a quote from Mr Fitzpatrick

"The first image I did of Che was psychedelic, it looks like he is in seaweed. His hair was not hair, it was shapes that I felt gave it an extra dimension. That was the image I produced for the magazine and that was done before he died and that is the important thing about that image. At first it did not print. It was considered far too strong and revolutionary. I was very inspired by Che's trip to Bolivia. He went there with the intent to overthrow the intensely corrupt government, helped by the Americans at the time, and that's where he died. I thought he was one of the greatest men who ever lived and I still do in many ways. And when he was murdered, I decided I wanted to do something about it, so I created the poster. I felt this image had to come out, or he would not be commemorated otherwise, he would go where heroes go, which is usually into anonymity."

—

[Colt45]

It could be said that it isn't the property of Jim Fitzpatrick to give away,but there you go.

Yes my thoughts as well - it doesn't seem he had permission to reproduce it, but Korda had not copyrighted the photo either. According to what I've read

(seems like the same or similar, Maz), Castro didn't believe in it, and pictures taken in Cuba were free to use after twenty five years.

I've no horse in the race, other than I get the feeling that some who wear the shirts have little knowledge of what they're wearing.

(for anyone interested, google Alberto Korda heroic guerilla).

[PigFish]

... I'll go even further. The commercialization of his image is delicious irony and a thumb in the eye to socialists everywhere. I'll contend that the exploitation of Che's image is far more noble than the man himself. Why? Because capitalism is the economic cornerstone of human freedom. Che was a missionary for Tyranny.

It is not often that I read something on a forum that is so outside the box that I have to step back and think about it for a while. This statement is profound. While one may note that Snickers and I are aligned politically and I can find many reasons to applaud what he has posted from a political perspective that is not the reason that I found interest in the statement. It stands on its own merits! Cheers mate.

I think similarly to a few above about what the man stood for in life, and that this person's life is not worthy of celebration to those who embrace liberty. I can also see that the topic is about art and not politics a point well made. Art is emotional and inspiriting however and it inspires comments; art as a medium has that intended effect. Separating the emotion from art negates art itself... does it not? There is no difference from professing like verses dislike for art, it lives to be opined, to be felt emotionally. The emotions brought forth by the picture makes the picture worth discussing both as art and political imagery. JMHO. I suppose if I posted a picture of a newly released Ronald Reagan postage stamp there would be many negative comments regarding the man's image. It too would be polarizing in effect. I therefore will not post one! I thought about it for a while just as an experiment to see if those who separate art from politics are consistent in their behavior but I came to my senses and decided to save my friend Rob the hassles of deleting the thread. (Sorry Ken!)

From an art perspective I will never view the face of a tyrant on a woman's apparel item the same way again! I will see it with the addition of the aforementioned thumb and have a good laugh. Thank you for that image Snickers! In that light, I suppose without copyright I am free to make Che toilet paper. The thought delights me!

If I decide on Che TP I will consider a trade for Reagan TP! Just in case my comments got another to thinking! -Piggy

[Ken Gargett]

re copyright;

Ironically,this isn't the guy who took the photograph.

The photograph was taken by Alberto Korda,and is named Guerillero Heroico.

It could be said that it isn't the property of Jim Fitzpatrick to give away,but there you go.

Here's a quote from Mr Fitzpatrick

"The first image I did of Che was psychedelic, it looks like he is in seaweed. His hair was not hair, it was shapes that I felt gave it an extra dimension. That was the image I produced for the magazine and that was done before he died and that is the important thing about that image. At first it did not print. It was considered far too strong and revolutionary. I was very inspired by Che's trip to Bolivia. He went there with the intent to overthrow the intensely corrupt government, helped by the Americans at the time, and that's where he died. I thought he was . And when he was murdered, I decided I wanted to do something about it, so I created the poster. I felt this image had to come out, or he would not be commemorated otherwise, he would go where heroes go, which is usually into anonymity."

—

i'd understood that the photo/image actually came from che being propped up after he was killed. clearly that must be an error.

as for mr fitzgerald, he is a braindead moron who should be given neither oxygen nor food nor space on this planet.

we've covered che in other posts but hard to think of a bigger nutter nor a more evil, insane and dangerous prick.

the overthrow of corrupt governments is undoubtedly an admirable aim and i am all for it, though che cared not a jot how it was done or who or how many suffered as long as he got what he wanted. if he was murdered, those that live by the sword...

i'd shed more tears for a dead toad on the road.

remember that this was the complete lunatic that pushed very hard for those nuclear weapons in cuba at the time of the missile crisis to be used against america. to castro's credit, i understand it was fidel that prevented this, though one assumes that the russians may have also played a role.

if mr fitzgerald really is so stupid, so guillible, as to think of che as "one of the greatest men who ever lived and I still do in many ways" then the sooner he joins him, the sooner we have a better planet.

seriously, idiots like that are enough to make one question evolution.

[mazolaman]

I think there should be a Postage stamp with Ronald Reagan on it.

I loved "Bedtime for Bonzo",and he should be rewarded for it.

As for the separation of politics and art,we all smoke lovely Cigars from Cuba,and this man was involved heavily in the removal of a corrupt government from that country.It is therefore likely that he,and Castro,Jose Marti,Earnest Hemmingway etc will come up here.

I don't think Mr Reagan was visibly involved in Cuban history.

As for toilet paper,I'll happily send you some with Margeret Thatchers face on it,as her policies dropped us into the crap we're in now,by,amongst other things, selling off all our publicly owned services into privatisation,screwing up our manufacturing industry,and creating the "city"based economy that has served us so well in recent years.....but,I am a little worried the image of her face might make a mess of my arse.

Ken,do you think the guy deserved to be murdered by CIA stooges,in a country far from their juristiction,and then be decapitated by his murderers?

Do you really cry at toads squished on the road?

And btw,don't start about evolution again,you know where that leads.

[El Presidente]

As for the separation of politics and art,we all smoke lovely Cigars from Cuba,and this man was involved heavily in the removal of a corrupt government from that country.

Ken,do you think the guy deserved to be murdered by CIA stooges,in a country far from their juristiction,and then be decapitated by his murderers?

On point one he was instumental in installing another corrupt government which went on to destroy infrastructure to such an extent that the most fertile country in the Carribean imports 60+ % of its food.

On point two he has nice record of murder far from his "juristiction". For Che "The end justified the means".

World history is littered with the carcases of innocents brought about by passionistas flying the flag of a particular ideology (left and right, political and religious).

If we are going to shed a tear let it be for the innocents.

[Ken Gargett]

I think there should be a Postage stamp with Ronald Reagan on it.

I loved "Bedtime for Bonzo",and he should be rewarded for it.

As for the separation of politics and art,we all smoke lovely Cigars from Cuba,and this man was involved heavily in the removal of a corrupt government from that country.It is therefore likely that he,and Castro,Jose Marti,Earnest Hemmingway etc will come up here.

I don't think Mr Reagan was visibly involved in Cuban history.

As for toilet paper,I'll happily send you some with Margeret Thatchers face on it,as her policies dropped us into the crap we're in now,by,amongst other things, selling off all our publicly owned services into privatisation,screwing up our manufacturing industry,and creating the "city"based economy that has served us so well in recent years.....but,I am a little worried the image of her face might make a mess of my arse.

Ken,do you think the guy deserved to be murdered by CIA stooges,in a country far from their juristiction,and then be decapitated by his murderers?

Do you really cry at toads squished on the road?

And btw,don't start about evolution again,you know where that leads.

no, re the toads - actually, as an introduced species, i aim for them. but still more likely to weep for them than che.

i'll leave the reagan stuff completely alone (by coincidence, on the tv in the background is reagan giving the evil empire speech).

as for thatcher, she may have been a very long way from perfect but i'm not sure that she is responsible entirely for the current mess - she has been gone a long time and if subsequent govts couldn't fix a few things, it doesn't say much for them - but i well remember visiting england for a few molnths over winter 78/79 and if you think you are in a mess now, it is nothing compared to the dire, depressed, sad, angry place britain was then. i was shocked. and the lift in the place was amazing, when i went back to live from 85 to 87.

as far as che, yes a good thing getting rid of the previous corrupt govt but look what they got instead.

and leaving aside the cia angle (he had declared war on the govt so if that govt's allies, whether it was a dodgy govt or not, helped out, what the hell did he expect?), i am firmly of the belief that while i do hate to see pain or death inflicted on any human, there are a few over the years that we would have been so much better off had they been exterminated long before they were. hitler, stalin, amin, saddam, bin laden, a few africans and so on (they may not speak highly of me in return but i can live with that). che is right up there with them. i could not care less how he was killed and think it a great shame it didn't happen a lot earlier. and nor did che care a fig about how he killed people.

[PigFish]

i'd understood that the photo/image actually came from che being propped up after he was killed. clearly that must be an error.

as for mr fitzgerald, he is a braindead moron who should be given neither oxygen nor food nor space on this planet.

we've covered che in other posts but hard to think of a bigger nutter nor a more evil, insane and dangerous prick.

the overthrow of corrupt governments is undoubtedly an admirable aim and i am all for it, though che cared not a jot how it was done or who or how many suffered as long as he got what he wanted. if he was murdered, those that live by the sword...

i'd shed more tears for a dead toad on the road.

remember that this was the complete lunatic that pushed very hard for those nuclear weapons in cuba at the time of the missile crisis to be used against america. to castro's credit, i understand it was fidel that prevented this, though one assumes that the russians may have also played a role.

if mr fitzgerald really is so stupid, so guillible, as to think of che as "one of the greatest men who ever lived and I still do in many ways" then the sooner he joins him, the sooner we have a better planet.

seriously, idiots like that are enough to make one question evolution.

DAMN KEN!!! When Bwana puts the lid on you the most surprising things arise from the smoldering ashes!!! While kudos from Mr. Piggy are rarely a thing to brag about, I put a gold star by your name today!!!! I think I am gonna' find my DVD of Quigly Down Under and play it in your honor tonight amigo! Other than Mad Max I don't have many righteous Ozzy movies! -LOL

Cheers, my friend! -the Pig

[snickers99]

It is not often that I read something on a forum that is so outside the box that I have to step back and think about it for a while. This statement is profound. While one may note that Snickers and I are aligned politically and I can find many reasons to applaud what he has posted from a political perspective that is not the reason that I found interest in the statement. It stands on its own merits! Cheers mate.

Thanks, Piggy. Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut!

[Ken Gargett]

DAMN KEN!!! When Bwana puts the lid on you the most surprising things arise from the smoldering ashes!!! While kudos from Mr. Piggy are rarely a thing to brag about, I put a gold star by your name today!!!! I think I am gonna' find my DVD of Quigly Down Under and play it in your honor tonight amigo! Other than Mad Max I don't have many righteous Ozzy movies! -LOL

Cheers, my friend! -the Pig

piggy, many thanks and much appreciated (though nothing at all has changed).

that said, if you did not have mad max, i'd have had to have a rethink.

[PigFish]

Thanks, Piggy. Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut!

OMG... another one! I thought I was the only one that used that phrase. Except I say eve a blind hog roots up an acorn occasionally!!! -LOL -