Lets fight over the direction of H SA!

[PigFish]

My opinon is all over this place! If you were runnin' H SA what would you do other than raid the company coffers?

I posted this the M Garcia thread. What do you think about der Leader mit his mits in das Kookie Jar?

While I don't want to see anyone sent to the gulag, as head of H SA, a company who's direction is to increase prices, decrease personality and choice, replace tradition for trend, over produce robustos and piramides at the cost of any cigar that isn't... I say anyone is potentially better than this man, whom I perceive as a poor company leader.

I guess if you like 50+ ring cigars... RE's, EL's, a huge selction of boxes containing what might as well be the same cigars, you may be sorry he is gone. I say "adios amigo!" Bring in the old guard, the new one's been no friend of us old dogs! ... or Pigs for that matter! ~Piggy

[Colt45]

Well Ray, I'll play - but perhaps from a different perspective This is something I've thought about for some time now - I've no emotional

investment in the brand or their products. If need be, I could stop right now (though I smoked a great Hoyo churchill this afternoon). I guess

when it comes right down to it, I don't care what they do - which might be worse than caring too much, I suppose.

But...... I must temper the above with my personal belief that I'll have alternatives in the not too distant future.

[PigFish]

Well Ray, I'll play - but perhaps from a different perspective This is something I've thought about for some time now - I've no emotional

investment in the brand or their products. If need be, I could stop right now (though I smoked a great Hoyo churchill this afternoon). I guess

when it comes right down to it, I don't care what they do - which might be worse than caring too much, I suppose.

But...... I must temper the above with my personal belief that I'll have alternatives in the not too distant future.

Damn Ross I wish I had your indifference. I didn't care prior to a few years ago when they started killing all the best cigars they made. So now I am curious... you going into the cigar business or quitting? -R

[Colt45]

Damn Ross I wish I had your indifference. I didn't care prior to a few years ago when they started killing all the best cigars they made. So now I am curious... you going into the cigar business or quitting? -R

Piggy, I'm not quitting, and I'm not saying I have an old schooner with an extra large cargo hold either

But to the point at hand, I think it's fairly obvious I enjoy Cuban cigars quite a bit. Being produced by HSA is not a prerequisite for that enjoyment

You wish you had my indifference - perhaps to an extent I envy your passion.....

[cigcars]

***I would IMMEDIATELY bring back * Punch Black Prince* and every one of the vitolas discontinued. Again - IMMEDIATELY!

[jacksfull]

The best thing they could do is separate the brands (or families of brands) under independent directors (ala the free enterprise days). A little healthy competition is all it takes to bring out the best in each.

[CanuckSARTech]

The best thing they could do is separate the brands (or families of brands) under independent directors (ala the free enterprise days). A little healthy competition is all it takes to bring out the best in each.

Piggy just wants to hear someone say, "Cancel all RE's & EL's!!!"

But, that is an excellent idea, jacksfull. I'd have to completely agree with that.

My suggestion then would be something that El Pres might have also mentioned in one of the videos, I believe. I think rather than a full blanket deletion of a bunch of items every year, I think they should instead look at the majority of these deletions moving instead to a bi-annual production run. That way, if it's not cost efficient for them to make 100,000 Dip 4's in a given year (~ whatever numbers), then fine, make 100,000 of them once every two years or so. That way, there's not as much of a money loss. And then, if things don't go well for the product then, on that kind of limited production, then it's put on the red list for full deletion after that if it doesn't cut the grade.

[PigFish]

Piggy just wants to hear someone say, "Cancel all RE's & EL's!!!"

But, that is an excellent idea, jacksfull. I'd have to completely agree with that.

My suggestion then would be something that El Pres might have also mentioned in one of the videos, I believe. I think rather than a full blanket deletion of a bunch of items every year, I think they should instead look at the majority of these deletions moving instead to a bi-annual production run. That way, if it's not cost efficient for them to make 100,000 Dip 4's in a given year (~ whatever numbers), then fine, make 100,000 of them once every two years or so. That way, there's not as much of a money loss. And then, if things don't go well for the product then, on that kind of limited production, then it's put on the red list for full deletion after that if it doesn't cut the grade.

See "Nut"... (my endearing nickname for you), that is where you, and I am sure others have got me wrong. My sentiments regarding EL's are all over this forum and other places on the net. I am very content with the program. Frankly, having others support H SA et al via an overpriced 'limited' cigar through a voluntary bilateral relationship is fine with me. I mean if one wants to spend more for their cigars, who am I to say they can't? I see the EL program for what it really is and that is not to make an exceptional cigar, but to make consumers like you and I pay more for a cigar. I was happy letting the EL consumer pay the additional profit margin so that I can smoke an excellent cigar at a reasonable price! Unfortunately it has caught up with me!!! They are killing the good reasonable cigars with the misguided assumption that I will always smoke CC's, regardless the price, reputation and performance. I say God bless the EL consumer; he pays to keep better standard production cigars alive. Well... he used to anyway.

I am not into killing cigars, EL's or otherwise. I say you smoke what you like and let me smoke what I like. The production models as you have suggested, I have similarly suggested numerous times. The problem is not that the cigars are not profitable, it is that someone feels that by changing the image of the market and limiting all the cigars that you smoke they can make the per/cigar profit greater. Perhaps they can! BUT... not without losing me and a lot of people that I know that have smoked CC's for many years.

-Piggy

[El Presidente]

HSA is a corporation and will in the end only produce cigars 'regularly' that make money. That will be their future gauge. "Traditionalists" come out and rail against changes to packaging of "endangered species" in order to save them. In the end the market will determine what is kept and what is dumped.

Personally I would create a heritage division of HSA whose sole role is to reinvigorate "endangered" cigars and look at bringing back some discontinued ones. In effect a cigar "Emergency theatre". The cigars have to stand on their own feet financially.

While I am quite sure HSA would love to offload a few Marques they are not interested in (LGC/ERDM/SP/RG/DIP) they don't want to create a competitor. So...do it internally through the heritage division and make these financial laggarts pay their way.

I have no faith in HSA to find the path required to navigate a global marketing minefield and domestic psychotic partnership situation. It takes brilliant leadership and they have shown no signs of possessing that.

[CanuckSARTech]

See "Nut"... (my endearing nickname for you), that is where you, and I am sure others have got me wrong. My sentiments regarding EL's are all over this forum and other places on the net. I am very content with the program. Frankly, having others support H SA et al via an overpriced 'limited' cigar through a voluntary bilateral relationship is fine with me. I mean if one wants to spend more for their cigars, who am I to say they can't? I see the EL program for what it really is and that is not to make an exceptional cigar, but to make consumers like you and I pay more for a cigar. I was happy letting the EL consumer pay the additional profit margin so that I can smoke an excellent cigar at a reasonable price! Unfortunately it has caught up with me!!! They are killing the good reasonable cigars with the misguided assumption that I will always smoke CC's, regardless the price, reputation and performance. I say God bless the EL consumer; he pays to keep better standard production cigars alive. Well... he used to anyway.

I am not into killing cigars, EL's or otherwise. I say you smoke what you like and let me smoke what I like. The production models as you have suggested, I have similarly suggested numerous times. The problem is not that the cigars are not profitable, it is that someone feels that by changing the image of the market and limiting all the cigars that you smoke they can make the per/cigar profit greater. Perhaps they can! BUT... not without losing me and a lot of people that I know that have smoked CC's for many years.

-Piggy

Oh, soooo true, Piggy. Well said.

Everyone has a breaking point somewhere.

[CanuckSARTech]

"Traditionalists" come out and rail against changes to packaging of "endangered species" in order to save them. In the end the market will determine what is kept and what is dumped.

Yes, and they actually have done a swell job on this lately, IMO. And while it's in no way some endangered species examples, I love the reimagining of the packaging for the Partagas Serie stuff - the red and black with gold is awesome. The new tubos really stand out. Also, the redux on the tubos and other related packaging of similar old guards, like R&J, and I find especially the H. Upmann Magnum 46 stuff - just beautiful. But yes, it is a "change" that some don't like.

Personally I would create a heritage division of HSA whose sole role is to reinvigorate "endangered" cigars and look at bringing back some discontinued ones. In effect a cigar "Emergency theatre". The cigars have to stand on their own feet financially.

Very cool Rob, just awesome idea. It would enable a smaller brand- / vitola-centric focus.

I have no faith in HSA to find the path required to navigate a global marketing minefield and domestic psychotic partnership situation. It takes brilliant leadership and they have shown no signs of possessing that.

Tell us how you feel, bud!