Cricket - sick feeling in my stomach

[winelover]

I love test cricket and really enjoyed all of the test cricket played this summer in England - including Pakistan v Aus and then the Eng v Pak 4 test series. I think the Pakistan team have a lot of raw talent and I have enjoyed watching them and wondered how they manage to do things without being able to play at home and then more recently with the terrible floods going on.

I'm totally dejected now as the recent corruption allegations surrounding certain members of the team who have been conspiring with middle men to defraud bookmakers by bowling 'no-balls' has viciously assaulted the sanctity of test cricket - the purest form of the game. I understand now that Ricky Ponting and other players are wondering about Australia's remarkable win over Pakistan in Syndey earlier this year.

It really is very sad for cricket and totally nauseating.

[Ben]

Totally agreed Graham. There is some sickening stuff popping up.

Bob Woolmer was a real sport and a true gentleman he never would have let this **** go on..... Perish the thought.

[CanuckSARTech]

This is even making HUGE news here in Canada, where cricket isn't even on the radar sporting-wise in our country (or in the U.S. either really). There just isn't any real attention paid to it here, unfortunately, sort of like futbol/soccer - it's just something that is huge worldwide, but not in North America for whatever reason.

Anyways, it's still making huge news here - it was the 2nd story on the CBC world news at the 6pm newscast on CBC radio yesterday. They're saying that this is likely the biggest story to hit world sports, due to the "pure nature" of cricket/test-cricket. They played a bunch of the audio recordings from the undercover investigations, and you can clearly hear the parties involved making the arrangements of a money exchange for plays being purposely screwed up. Amazing stuff, and big money too (quarter million CDN dollars, or so, in this one single situation).

Not what Pakistan needs right now at all. I wonder if the (presumably) guilty parties are going to say it was all for helping out people at home in Pakistan, or something similar to that, to try and well up the sympathy card.

Wait and see, I guess, until more info comes out. A shame, really.

[mazolaman]

I also am gutted by this.

Cricket is my sporting love,and I hate anything that sullies the game.

I'm also sad that it is the young chap Amir that seems to be in the middle of it.

He is only 18,and looks like the best young prospect I've seen in ages,bowling some great swing bowling.

I'll be gutted if he's banned,having possibly been told by superiors to act.

The sad thing is,the Pakistani team earn nothing like the same as England or Australia,no excuse,but.....

The good news is,Pieterson has been dropped,and is throwing his toys out the pram!

[El Presidente]

Hansie Cronje?

Cricket has been corrupt for a long time and that includes serious doubt against some of our own Australians. "We were just doing pitch reports"

[Guest rob]

Like John Howard and Ken Gargett (I bet you never thought you would hear their names in the same sentence) - I'm a cricket tragic. I love the game both for its skill, strategy and honour.

Reports like corruption from the sub-continent dont surprise me one iota... but they make it no less hurtful.

I 'used' to love Rugby League years ago... and a few controversies and player revolts later... now I hardly watch a game.

[bombaybill]

This is not the game of Bradman & Sobers anymore. The game's gone to ****.

I first learned that these guys were betting on the game was back in 1983. After the WI lost the World Cup they came to India for a 6 test match series. Malcolm Marshall was on FIRE

Test match 4/6 was to be played in Bombay. My dad told me that after this match he would buy me anything i wanted, because Viv Richards would hit a 100. My reaction was no way, dad was betting the farm on it... mum was nervous.

He told me that it was guaranteed because Ravi Shastri & Sunny's dad's had bet BIG money w the bookies on it. Sure enough Viv knocked in 120 that Sunday. What convinced me wasn't the 120, but a stumping chance that went by before.

Well, Ravi was the bowler and ( in a moment of weakness) got one to turn sharply past Viv and go to first slip. Viv thought he was done, since he was half way down the wicket and didn't look back, until the runner told at the other end told Viv to get back ( Gus Logie). Viv mind you "ambled" back to the batting crease, and all concerned had a good chuckle.

Oh..the guy at first slip fumblng with the ball ...Sunny Gavaskar!

[asmith]

Corruption, Betting and Beers are the only things that make 5 days of cricket interesting.

The funny thing with all of this is that the Poms have been saying for the last couple of weeks that England will give Australia a touch up in the coming Ashes series here in Oz becuase they have been thumping the Pakies. Now they are realising that the Pakies have been throwing the games they are a little worried that their team isn't as good as they though it was.

[Ken Gargett]

I'm also sad that it is the young chap Amir that seems to be in the middle of it.

He is only 18,and looks like the best young prospect I've seen in ages,bowling some great swing bowling.

I'll be gutted if he's banned,having possibly been told by superiors to act.

The sad thing is,the Pakistani team earn nothing like the same as England or Australia,no excuse,but.....

anyone involved should be jailed for life. i read that there are thoughts that those involved may face the death penalty back home. a good thing.

as for any suggestion that this bloke has acted that way because he was told to, how on earth is that an excuse. if he is that weak and corrupt then the sooner is gone from the game for good, the better. applies equally to any aussies, poms, kiwis etc.

and what they earn is irrelevant. it is still way more than the average pakistani and they have a great life. i had a major disagreement with a south african owner of a winery who runs a charity cricket game and gets quite a few of the old players involved. he invited azruddin (sp?). here is a bloke that was banned for match fixing and trying to rebuild his credibility through the back door. this bloke is a fanatical cricket lover but can't see that if you involve these people in the sport, it degrades everything.

and there is plenty of money on the sub-continent. granted more in india than pakistan but when the indian keeper gets more than $40mill for his face on billboards, i suspect there is plenty of money around.

they should be banned for life from the game, no possibility of redemption.

[El Presidente]

Dennis Lillee Rodney Marsh

remember all the dropped Botham catches?

"People go on about that [Headingley] as if it was the start of match fixing," he says. "But we only put a tenner on because the odds were so ridiculous. Listen, I'm a trained accountant, you think I'd have only put a tenner on if I knew the game was fixed? Besides, the thing I remember about that Test was ------ Botham's innings. It's gone down in history as one of the great knocks of all time. But do you know how lucky he was? He was nicking everything. We dropped him about seven times. Jeez, it still annoys me now how we let him off."

[Ken Gargett]

Dennis Lillee Rodney Marsh

remember all the dropped Botham catches?

"People go on about that [Headingley] as if it was the start of match fixing," he says. "But we only put a tenner on because the odds were so ridiculous. Listen, I'm a trained accountant, you think I'd have only put a tenner on if I knew the game was fixed? Besides, the thing I remember about that Test was ------ Botham's innings. It's gone down in history as one of the great knocks of all time. But do you know how lucky he was? He was nicking everything. We dropped him about seven times. Jeez, it still annoys me now how we let him off."

i'm sure that there are plenty of examples but i struggle with that one. just do not see it.

the aussie batting collapse more likely. you'd be a brave man though to try and fix an innings with border batting.

[El Presidente]

i'm sure that there are plenty of examples but i struggle with that one. just do not see it.

the aussie batting collapse more likely. you'd be a brave man though to try and fix an innings with border batting.

ken, they placed a bet on the opposition in a game they were playing in. Fact.

They should have both been banned.

[Ken Gargett]

ken, they placed a bet on the opposition in a game they were playing in. Fact.

They should have both been banned.

true and don't disagree but a $10 bet (and don't forget, there was no attempt to hide it) is hardly match fixing. stupidity yes. if i thought for an instant that either in any way didn't try and win that that game then i would be happy to see them banned and their names stripped from every record in the game.

they quite openly said they did it because the odds were so ridiculous in a two horse race (england were something like 500-1) and five bucks each?

seriously, if they were going to have a crack then they would have had someone else do it, kept quiet and put a bit more on it.

but it was a really stupid thing to do.

and there are rules in place now that if anyone did something like that then they would be properly dealt with but in those days, there was nothing. just dumb cricketers.

[Ken Gargett]

for what it is worth, i just contacted a mate of mine who played for england, though not in that game. his view is similar. he mentioned that the two were actually just walking around the ground and happened to see a ladbrokes with the odds and did it on the spot for a joke. he is fairly confident that those two would never have given anything less than their best effort.

penalise them for being dumb in doing it (though it looks a lot dumber now than it did at the time because we didn't have the threat of match fixing) but i do not believe this to be match fixing in any form.

[El Presidente]

true and don't disagree but a $10 bet (and don't forget, there was no attempt to hide it) is hardly match fixing. stupidity yes. if i thought for an instant that either in any way didn't try and win that that game then i would be happy to see them banned and their names stripped from every record in the game.

they quite openly said they did it because the odds were so ridiculous in a two horse race (england were something like 500-1) and five bucks each?

seriously, if they were going to have a crack then they would have had someone else do it, kept quiet and put a bit more on it.

but it was a really stupid thing to do.

and there are rules in place now that if anyone did something like that then they would be properly dealt with but in those days, there was nothing. just dumb cricketers.

There's the problem ken.

If there are degrees of being "Dirty" then so be it. Is that the first time they bet? Was there bigger amounts put through other sources? Did they announce the $10 bet as a smoke screen?

I don't believe they did any of the above. What I am saying is that the seeds of doubt are sown. The game is diminished.

The 18 year old Pakistani bowler would have been under some tremendous pressure to comply to the wishes of other senior players in the team. How much did L&M's actions/culture influence Mark Waugh / Shane Warne when money was received for pitch reports?

Who knows and I am not casting aspersions but either you are purer than pure for the benefit of the game or you are tainted and so is the game.

For what its worth I think Cricket is in its death throes or at least cricket as we knew it. Seasons are too long, passion is gone, betting/corruption apparently rife (again...Hansie Cronje) and it is not limited to the subcontinent.

[Ken Gargett]

There's the problem ken.

If there are degrees of being "Dirty" then so be it. Is that the first time they bet? Was there bigger amounts put through other sources? Did they announce the $10 bet as a smoke screen?

I don't believe they did any of the above. What I am saying is that the seeds of doubt are sown. The game is diminished.

The 18 year old Pakistani bowler would have been under some tremendous pressure to comply to the wishes of other senior players in the team. How much did L&M's actions/culture influence Mark Waugh / Shane Warne when money was received for pitch reports?

Who knows and I am not casting aspersions but either you are purer than pure for the benefit of the game or you are tainted and so is the game.

For what its worth I think Cricket is in its death throes or at least cricket as we knew it. Seasons are too long, passion is gone, betting/corruption apparently rife (again...Hansie Cronje) and it is not limited to the subcontinent.

i agree except at the time it happened ('81 from memory), there was simply no issue. no one was talking about match fixing. if it happened, it was very much under the radar. i have no doubt that if things were different, they would never have even considered it but then it was nothing more than a joke. one that has since gone wrong. to a degree, you need to judge people for their actions at the time and in the prevailing circumstances. certainly it was dumb, even then, but nothing more.

i have a much greater problem with the 'weather reports', especially in relation to one of the players mentioned as there are more stories, and not positive ones - the other one is just dumb. that should have been taken a lot further but i don't imagine for a second that there was any thoughts back to L/M.

i'm hoping that a good ashes series, whatever the result, will help test cricket. the last three or four series have been the rock to cricket.

[dicko]

it all leaves a sick feeling doesn't it??

peter roebuck just wrote an article about cricket needing strong leadership. he mentioned johnhoward not getting the ICC gig. what do you all think?

http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/cricket/to...0830-147c1.html

[Ken Gargett]

it all leaves a sick feeling doesn't it??

peter roebuck just wrote an article about cricket needing strong leadership. he mentioned johnhoward not getting the ICC gig. what do you all think?

http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/cricket/to...0830-147c1.html

there has been a lot of talk that the fact howard missed out was a rascism thing but my understanding is that it is much more that howard is seen as pro test cricket whereas the sub-continent block is very much pro-short forms.

the icc will soon show what it is made of with this latest scandal. if it isn't fearless, then the result will be disastrous.

[mazolaman]

The reason John Howard didn't get the gig was that he was going to be very positive in issues like this,and the future of cricket.The subcontinent powers that be didn't want this,so we get someone who we havent heard of.Who is doing nowt,the silence is palpable from the icc.

This thread seems to have gone on to match fixing,which has not been implied.So far they are only accused of doing a few no balls,and possibly leading to a few spread bets.The obvious question is how far they would go.

Ken.he probably should be banned(amir),my point was that it would be a shame for a lad who looks a bloody good bowler,who was probably told to do so by people he is in awe of.It wouldn't be the first time.

This is the sad thing about it,it calls into question incidents that have happened previously.

I still find it hard to believe any team would throw a propper international match.

ASmith- We(England) do not think we will walk over Australia at all,and are nowhere claiming such.We are not weighing up our chances of ashes victory by the victory over a pretty poor Pakistan side,who are in disarray.The general feeling over here is that we have good chance,but playing you at home is a difficult thing to do.

Most test cricket still sells out over here.

Btw,I here Pietersen is applying to become an Australian citizen....

[Ken Gargett]

The reason John Howard didn't get the gig was that he was going to be very positive in issues like this,and the future of cricket.The subcontinent powers that be didn't want this,so we get someone who we havent heard of.Who is doing nowt,the silence is palpable from the icc.

This thread seems to have gone on to match fixing,which has not been implied.So far they are only accused of doing a few no balls,and possibly leading to a few spread bets.The obvious question is how far they would go.

Ken.he probably should be banned(amir),my point was that it would be a shame for a lad who looks a bloody good bowler,who was probably told to do so by people he is in awe of.It wouldn't be the first time.

This is the sad thing about it,it calls into question incidents that have happened previously.

I still find it hard to believe any team would throw a propper international match.

ASmith- We(England) do not think we will walk over Australia at all,and are nowhere claiming such.We are not weighing up our chances of ashes victory by the victory over a pretty poor Pakistan side,who are in disarray.The general feeling over here is that we have good chance,but playing you at home is a difficult thing to do.

Most test cricket still sells out over here.

Btw,I here Pietersen is applying to become an Australian citizen....

if we stopped russell crowe, we can stop KP.

i think that the key was that what these guys did with the no balls was to prove what could be done and the same guy has boasted about fixing games using these players - including the sydney game v pakistan. i think it is very much implied, at th very least. actually, i think it is blatent.

as for ashes form, i don't think you can possibly take anything from either our games or the pommy games v the pakistanis. you can no longer have any faith in what was achieved. it is a shame as they have talent.

[winelover]

In today's Daily Telegraph:

English cricket is on a sticky wicket, too

The spirit of a once civilised game has been ruined by greed, writes Simon Heffer.

It would be nice if all that were wrong with professional cricket was a few greedy and corrupt foreigners spoiling it all for everyone else, but it isn't. Cricket was looking pretty seedy, and losing popularity, before last weekend's events. It is dominated by a repulsive obsession with money. Its rulers' principal interests are political or financial, not sporting. Some national boards of control are in the hands of types whom one would not want to marry one's daughter, or even park one's car.

We cricket lovers have always said it is more than a game. How right we were, but not in the way we hoped. It used to be a moral paradigm. It was a metaphor for good behaviour. It is now about peculation, organised crime, and the exploitation of post-imperial guilt. If one used to understand it by reference to the writings of Cardus or Swanton, one would do best today to start with the late Samuel P Huntington's The Clash of Civilisations: And the Remaking of World Order. It's more than a game all right: it's a bloody horror story.

In one's despair at this further proof of the erosion of civilised sporting values, one has had a few moments of comedy, for which one should be grateful. I have especially enjoyed the insistence by those who wish to keep the game going that the allegations have "yet to be proved". I am sure they do. However, a recording exists of an alleged match fixer telling an undercover reporter when three no-balls would be bowled. They were bowled, last Thursday and Friday, by Mohammed Asif and Mohammed Amir.

I am no mathematician, but the odds against this happening coincidentally must be stratospherically high. So let's stop talking about "proof"; the proof is that it was promised, and it happened.

Other moments of comedy have come from various of the game's older buffers, all calling for calm. One such, the immensely distinguished Field Marshal Lord Bramall, led the charge in the letters column of this newspaper yesterday. I do not impugn Lord Bramall's motives: he only wants cricket to be the wonderful game we all hope it is. But he is wrong.

This is a shocking offence. It isn't just three no-balls. Each ball could have taken a wicket, if bowled properly, and altered the balance of the match. The public, many of whom had paid a small fortune for seats, had been defrauded. They were not watching a fair or honest contest. And, let us not forget, the three no-balls are all we have hard evidence of. God knows what else might have been going on. Was the Pakistani side really so poor when trying its damnedest as to be bowled out for 74, after England had made 446? You tell me.

In fact, dealing with this manifestation is, or should be, relatively easy. When it is finally proved that the bowlers knew what they were doing, and if it is proved that the captain and wicketkeeper were in on the scam, they should be told they will never play first-class cricket again. My heart is hardened against the sentimental, weak-minded bleating of those who say that Mohammed Amir is so talented, and so young (he is 18) that he should not be punished too severely.

This is drivel. If Amir is guilty (and I do not hold out too much hope of hearing that his no-balling was a quite stunning coincidence), then he should never play again. Boys of eight at prep schools playing their first competitive match have it drilled into them that it is wrong to cheat. He was old enough to know better, and should take the full consequences of his stupidity, not least to encourage the others.

Pakistan should also be thrown out of world cricket for five years, and only readmitted if having passed the most stringent vetting procedures to ensure that the culture of corruption in their cricket has been eradicated. The rest of the cricket-playing world was fast enough to ban South Africa from international cricket for 25 years because of the application of the policies of apartheid to cricket, and quite right too. What has been allowed to happen in Pakistani cricket is almost as heinous. Both racism and corruption violate the spirit of the game to a point where the game itself becomes putrid.

Such necessary action will not happen, because the International Cricket Council is itself a comic turn, with no teeth, little leverage, and existing these days as a constant political weapon exercised by third world countries against the former colonial oppressor.

It was for this reason that the suggested appointment as president of John Howard, the former Australian prime minister and a man steeped in the game, was vetoed recently. The last thing the banana republicans who call the shots in international cricket want is a serious man of integrity going in and seeing how very

filthy some of the rooms in the house are.

If only more of the national boards had some guts, this problem could be eliminated. A threat to withdraw from the ICC by England and Australia would panic most of the other countries. But we are afraid, and too morally at sea, to use our muscle. Another comic moment was the photograph of Giles Clarke, the entrepreneur who chairs the England and Wales Cricket Board, failing to make eye contact with or even shake the hand of Amir when he presented him with a man of the series award. Mr Clarke is the man whose judgment was so spavined that he allowed Sir Allen Stanford, currently awaiting trial for a massive fraud, to empty his slop pail over English cricket, so it ill became him to snub a mere novice like Amir.

Had the ECB any moral fibre, it would have called off the one-day series England are set to play against Pakistan. It is irrelevant that those suspected of wrongdoing are to leave the side, for how many others may also be tainted? And how far will the hearts of the untainted be in giving England a serious game of cricket? But the matches will go ahead because money is the one and only god of the ECB.

We may not have our match-fixers or bent players – I hope – but the policies of Mr Clarke and the chairmen of many county teams create the same culture of financial greed that is proving so poisonous out East. It's all very cosy in English first-class cricket, with handouts from the centre subsidising counties whose best players hardly ever turn out for them, who play the most boring and attritional cricket that has driven away crowds, and whose committee men, in their epic stupidity, fail to realise the truth of Oscar Wilde's observation that each man kills the thing he loves.

Of course the cricket authorities want a quiet life. Of course they want this out of the way with the minimum of fuss. Yet it would be a damned sight better for cricket if we had the mother of all fusses. For decades the old buffers, the naive, the irresponsible and the incompetent who are the stewards of our cricket have pretended this was still a gentlemen's game, and that such horrors as this were extremely rare. Well, boys, you were wrong. And if you don't belatedly assert the full moral force of our sporting civilisation against those out to destroy it, you soon won't have a game left to undermine.

[CanuckSARTech]

anyone involved should be jailed for life. i read that there are thoughts that those involved may face the death penalty back home. a good thing.

Damn, Ken!!!! Wait a minute....

Gargett for Prime Minister!!!!!!

[mazolaman]

This just gets worse and worse,

Now ICC have said they are investigating "irregular scoring patterns" in the 3rd one day international.

However,they are not stating which team they are investigating.

Nor does it look obvious that there is any cheating going on.

Now,the head of Pakistani cricket claims that the English players are cheating,and can be bought.

Utter bollocks.

I'm afraid these idiots are ruining the sport.

All due to some betting syndicates in a nation where gambling is illegal!!!!

[Ken Gargett]

Now,the head of Pakistani cricket claims that the English players are cheating,and can be bought.

Utter bollocks.

without suggesting that there is anything actually untoward from english players, you have far, far more confidence than i do. who would have thought hansie cronie? we had the 'aussie weather reports'. we have all sorts of suggestions that it is happening in rugby league where there was a massive plunge recently on one side to kick a penalty as the first score of the game and an opposition player did give away first the ball and then a stupid penalty right in front of the posts in the opening minutes of that game, though someone didn't know the script as the side took a quick tap and got a try (we've seen that goalie in england? grobbelar or something?). there are suggestions of players in aussie rules kicking a certain number of goals, or possibly none, in a 1/4. very hard to prove or disprove.

we see it in so many sports these days, you are kidding if you think they are are immune because they are english. wave enough money at most people and there is a real danger they'll cave. sad but true.

if it emerged that poms, or aussies, were involved, i'd be deeply saddened but hardly surprised.

[mazolaman]

I suppose you are right,I am naive to think we English are uncorruptable.

My hopes were based on what I have seen with my own eyes,I cannot believe this team would entertain the thought.

Much the same as i cannot believe the great Aussie teams of the past would do it.

As far as I'm concerned,the only cheating we do know is stealing other nations players!

Either way,it's due to spread betting.

The difficulty is,how do you alter things so that the betting cannot affect the result?

And,as usual,the Icc,the Ecb,the Pcc have all made a fumbling mess of it....

As said previously on this post,what was required was the likes of John Howard to cut a swathe through the idiots,and make positive strides for the future of cricket.

The reason he isn't in charge is that the Indians/Pakistanis would not accept it,and therefore they put their man in.....maybe a stoolpidgeon?