Premium Cuban cigars made with non-Cuban grown tobacco?

[phxkev]

Just wondering what some FOH members take on this is. In meeting with a lot of cigar industry people, I have been told now by four prominent people (three manufacturers and one grower) that Cuba has been buying cigar tobacco from Nicaragua for years. One gentleman told me Italy has been selling them tobacco for a long time too. When I sat down with one of the major tobacco growers from Nicaragua, after a few glasses of wine, I asked him about the rumors of Cuba bringing in and using non-Cuban graown tobacco (tobacco grown in Nicaragua). He didn't deny it. He took his time, smiled and said "that's something they wouldn't want known". And, the flow of tobacco has gone both ways according to another manufacturer in Nicaragua. I was told there is some Cuban-grown tobacco in a recent Nicaraguan brand release. I was told Cuba did not want to pay cash for tobacco so trading has taken place.

I don't want to get into the names and brands involved here. I didn't beileve these rumors at first. But when I hear it from several prominent players in the industry, I wonder why there would be a conspiracy to lie about this one way or the other.

Do you think there is Nicaraguan grown tobacco in any Cuban cigars?

Do you think there is any Cuban grown tobacco in Nicaraguan cigars?

[El Presidente]

There has never been one shipping manifest / Bill of lading ever provided as proof.

Until there is.....Case Closed.

[anacostiakat]

There has never been one shipping manifest / Bill of lading ever provided as proof.

Until there is.....Case Closed.

Agreed!

[Jimmy2]

I have talked to many high profile NC owners and all they tell me is they wish they could put some in their blends but never said they had any.

One of the big time blenders for one of these compaines i sat down with for over an hour one time he said he went to VR farm many times and knows him for a long time.

He said he had recived some tobacco from him and he personal blended it with Non Cuban tobacco to give out to his friends and big buyers of their product mainly Cigars shops across the US( will not say the compaines name).

The owner of the lounge recived some and i smoked one as the owner knows i have a pretty good palete and smoke mainly CC this cigar had no Cuban tobacco.

It was good but it had all the trade marks of a ??? cant tell you guys which brand than i would give up the blender and they might sue me. He was full of **** nice guy but i am not one of the regular cigar people that he can fool..

But take my word for what is worth its all fairy Tales the truth is they all want Cuban tobacco thats the truth 150%!!!

[brutusthebuckeye]

I have talked to many high profile NC owners and all they tell me is they wish they could put some in their blends but never said they had any.

One of the big time blenders for one of these compaines i sat down with for over an hour one time he said he went to VR farm many times and knows him for a long time.

He said he had recived some tobacco from him and he personal blended it with Non Cuban tobacco to give out to his friends and big buyers of their product mainly Cigars shops across the US( will not say the compaines name).

The owner of the lounge recived some and i smoked one as the owner knows i have a pretty good palete and smoke mainly CC this cigar had no Cuban tobacco.

It was good but it had all the trade marks of a ??? cant tell you guys which brand than i would give up the blender and they might sue me. He was full of **** nice guy but i am not one of the regular cigar people that he can fool..

But take my word for what is worth its all fairy Tales the truth is they all want Cuban tobacco thats the truth 150%!!!

Very Nice Jimmy!!!!!

Sounds like a NC marketing scheme!!!

[phxkev]

There has never been one shipping manifest / Bill of lading ever provided as proof.

Until there is.....Case Closed.

There is an estimate of up to 50 Million Cuban cigars enterng the US each year, and I would bet I would be hard pressed to find shipping manifests or bills of lading to prove it. According to those, there are an awful lot of socks, books, and travel brochures coming in from Europe and elsewhere.

I would imagine that if any of it were true, neither Cuba nor Nicarigua would want it known as it would not be in either country's best interest.

And who knows what 3rd parties are involved. Shipments could be indirect. Something like only 1% of shipping containers coming in to the US are inspected.

Of course, the whole thing could be rumors. I only contend that the possibility exists.

If a Nicaraguan cigar has some Cuban grown tobacco in it, it would be such a new and unique blend that U doubt many people would suspect it contained Cuban tobacco. No? If a Nicaraguan made cigar with a blend of tobacco from several contries has a small percentage of Cuban leaf, could you tell?

[stargazer14]

True or not, i can say the cigars coming out of cuba are pretty darn good,

Italian tobacco or not,

so they are doing something right.

As for the smokes coming from elsewhere - I'm not as impressed.

Thats MY 'case closed'

[rckymtn22]

I can't see them shipping in tobacco since Cuba can barely afford to import food. Which is more important?

[Colt45]

Aside from receiving cash - and lots of it - why would Cubans export prime cigar tobacco? And to what end import the same. Even if some unscrupulous

individuals were shipping tobacco out the back door and it was being used in some NCs, neither could advertise the fact, so why bother going through

the trouble? While nothing is impossible, it doesn't seem to make much sense.

[El Presidente]

There is an estimate of up to 50 Million Cuban cigars enterng the US each year, and I would bet I would be hard pressed to find shipping manifests or bills of lading to prove it. According to those, there are an awful lot of socks, books, and travel brochures coming in from Europe and elsewhere.

I would imagine that if any of it were true, neither Cuba nor Nicarigua would want it known as it would not be in either country's best interest.

And who knows what 3rd parties are involved. Shipments could be indirect. Something like only 1% of shipping containers coming in to the US are inspected.

Of course, the whole thing could be rumors. I only contend that the possibility exists.

If a Nicaraguan cigar has some Cuban grown tobacco in it, it would be such a new and unique blend that U doubt many people would suspect it contained Cuban tobacco. No? If a Nicaraguan made cigar with a blend of tobacco from several contries has a small percentage of Cuban leaf, could you tell?

Cubans have not had a commercial deal yet that has not ended in acrimony. You do not move the quantity of tobacco required without people knowing and here I am not talking about farmers backdooring but rather the state entering into commercial transactions which is what the nongs of the Nic and Dom industries continue to pedal without an iota of proof. Someone would have spilled the beans long ago.

It really is a gutless act. They all "know" but press them for proof and there is NONE. Simple envy which reflects poorly on their product and sense of worth.

When I coach I always coach to respect the enemy. In commerce I have never bagged a competitor in public.

Does the Cuban industry really scare them so much?

[Nocoins]

If Cuba truly was shipping tobacco to Nicaragua or other countries serving the so-called domestic market for cigars, this would present quite a issue for US Customs and OFAC, no? I highly doubt that any country which sends the vast majority of its cigars to the US would risk that entire segment of its economy for a few leaves of Cuban tobacco. The perpetuation of this rumor has become ridiculous.

[finecigar]

True or not, i can say the cigars coming out of cuba are pretty darn good,

Italian tobacco or not,

so they are doing something right.

As for the smokes coming from elsewhere - I'm not as impressed.

Thats MY 'case closed'

I agree!!!

[ColKurtz]

.....

Do you think there is Nicaraguan grown tobacco in any Cuban cigars?

Do you think there is any Cuban grown tobacco in Nicaraguan cigars?

....

1. Perhaps, I don't care as long as the taste is the same as I fell in love with.

2. Doubtful. Only ones to gain are the Nic producers....

[jacksfull]

...When I coach I always coach to respect the enemy. In commerce I have never bagged a competitor in public...

Quite right. Likewise, it's never a good idea to compromise your competitive advantage either. I doubt any of these points would be lost on the Cubans.

[Ken Gargett]

colt, why would they do it? cash. lots of extremely useful, much desired necessary cash. that said, i would be very surprised if it was happening. stunned actually. i remain of the belief that they are not unless someone can show me concrete evidence to the contrary.

as to evidence though, the lack of an invoice or bill of lading or shipping docs is hardly conclusive. can't imagine it would be in anyone's interest for them to appear. but i still don't believe it is happening.

[Colt45]

colt, why would they do it? cash. lots of extremely useful, much desired necessary cash.

pssst..... if you re-read my post, the first bit says, and I quote: "Aside from receiving cash - and lots of it". In the future, I will try and type more

slowly......

[Ken Gargett]

pssst..... if you re-read my post, the first bit says, and I quote: "Aside from receiving cash - and lots of it". In the future, I will try and type more

slowly......

y...e....s. i f...o...l...l...o...w.

i was agreeing.

[Hugomarink]

I worked as an editor at a fairly prominent cigar magazine from 1997-1999 and I heard this same rumor bandied about back then. All this time later it still seems to be just a rumor.

[android]

Send in Scooby & Shaggy we got us a mystery?

[Tampa1257]

ccBScc

[SnakeHips]

I would have thought the people who bought into this baseless rumor would have made the connection that the people perpetuating it have something to gain by it, not to mention that they're whole industry is based around mimicking Cuba. It'd be like a "prominent individual" from GM telling you "You know, Japan's been buying engines from us for years..."

[Padrino]

I have been told now by four prominent people (three manufacturers and one grower) that Cuba has been buying cigar tobacco from Nicaragua for years.

So what they're saying is that Cuba managed to actually improve and make a cigar with flavour from NC tobacco, whilst the NC's only manage to make the same sweet, over spiced drab..... ?

There's more sense in the 'Paranormal" thread than in this one....

[Stalebread]

. . . There's more sense in the 'Paranormal" thread than in this one.... )

[laficion]

I have already posted here on the forum about this .

As I've said before, I truly think that there's a planed strategy behind all

of this and I'm sure that some non-cuban companies and I mean some, "BIG"

guys, are out there to discredit and destableize the cuban cigar on the whole in the US,

Before the end of the embargo, which by the way, I don't see for very soon, anyway,

I have more then once heard or have read this on podcasts, blogs or cigar sites,

pretty soon we will be hearing that thanks to Nicaraguan tobacco, the cuban cigar

has been saved. As El Prez has mentioned, there still hasn't been any proof of this

anywhere but seemingly someone & everyone these days has heard a person, well informed,in the

cigar industry who comes up and and tells them," HEY, don't tell anyone but I've got news for you"

We all know how fast a rumor can spread. Rob has said at the end of his post up above,

" Does the Cuban industry really scare them so much ?" I think that the answer is YES.

Here is a copy of what I sent to a BIG company some time ago when they came out with a

very agressive campaign last year.

Black Band Project, Yeah, OK, pretty agressvie marketing, well layed out video, cool actors, a real "Mike Hammer" like series, to prove what ? That you are, yourselves,exactly what you are criticizing? I've been smoking Cuban cigars for over 38 years, not because I don't know better, not because I believe in myths of Cubans,not because I'm a social snob, It's just because they are the best cigars in the world. Until you can prouve

to the REST of the cigar smokers in the world that they are wrong, Cuban cigars will rule, communist or not, they have always been and will continue to be the best. I have smoked and will keep on smoking other cigars from other cigar countries, I have nothing againist them. I have smoked your brand also, SO, what's so special ?? Here is how I see it.

All this is proof that certain companies want to keep the embargo,WHY ?,Because

now,they are really scared, all those NC big shots who have been in control of the cigar market in the US for the last 48 years. All of their agressive marketing on how Cuban cigars ARE not the best cigars, BUT are always ready with the ,Our cigars are made by cuban rollers, Our cigars come from cuban seeds, Our cigars have that cuban taste & style, Our cigars are Habanos outside of Habana. Then comes your own propaganda, Don't put your money in Castros pocket, Don't support the commies, the Cuban cigar that you're smoking is made by an angry commie, etc .etc, Our cigars are the best in the world, little did the Americans know at the time, that the NC market represented only A VERY SMALL part of the world market and only in the US. They have , for years, misinformed and misguided the uneducated cigar smokers in America.

Now they are really scared of losing control, scared that the American cigar smoker is questioning his

tastes and is not buying all the BS surronding NC's , scared of the growing sales of Cuban cigars through the internet,scared of the end of the embargo and above all, scared that they will have to make real cigars. So,In the coming year or two, I'm sure that I'll be seeing even more agressivness from their part thru marketing because,now, they really want to scare EVERYONE into buying their cigars.

All this ,of course, is only my 2 cents worth, but from what I've seen in the last 30 years,coming

and going from Europe to the US. I stand by what I've said .

I never got a reply back.

[anacostiakat]

They didnt even send you some of their cigars?