corneliusmaximus

And if I'm understanding correctly, this model recommends that to retain the same moisture of the cigar, for each increase in 1dF, you should also raise rH by 0.33%. Correct? To give an example, if it's hypothetically optimal to keep a certain cigar at 65F / 62%, then to adjust to an environment of 71F, you would calculate 62 + (0.33 x 6) = 64%.

Can someone (@PigFish?) please explain the science of this relationship to me? This model claims that, to maintain the same moisture level in a cigar at a higher temperature, you need to raise the relative humidity as well. But I thought that the same relative humidity at a higher temperature meant more moisture, since warm air can hold more water...

I’ve been watching Sopranos, where they’re constantly smoking cigars, and it made me wonder what other shows or movies prominently feature cigar smoking. A recent one I watched was the Michael Jordan doc “The Last Dance” and MJ smokes quite a bit there. Would love some recommendations, new or old! More points if you can recognize a Cuban cigar [emoji6]

What’s the deal with Trinidad? I hear it’s considered near the top but also very unreliable?

Thank you for the recommendations! I ordered a couple of each of these to try: * PARTAGAS - LUSITANIAS * ROMEO Y JULIETA - CHURCHILLS * COHIBA - SIGLO VI

Hello guys and gals! I was wondering what you would recommend as a top quality cigar that’s on the lighter side. I don’t smoke often now adays (a cigar every few months), so I’d be willing to spend a good amount for them. Ideally it also lasts a while - flexible on size just not too small. Also, would you recommend I try to get something through the 24:24 to get something truly special?

Paul, Thank you for your thoughtful response and for sacrificing a couple cigars in the name of science. I was fishing for somebody to provide those raw numbers of the composition, and I am grateful for your contribution. I believe that it's important to discuss and challenge common knowledge, because after all, most of us spend a lot of time and money enjoying this luxury and it warrants a certain level of understanding. I don't currently have any counterarguments to your post, most of it seems quite reasonable. From lack of further evidence, I have changed my views accordingly. I certainly hope to speak about it with industry folks when I get the chance, since it's such a commonly held notion. I would still love to also try my proposed experiment of comparing a dark wrapper/binder with a light wrapper, keeping the filler the same. Perhaps even blind, to prevent bias. That, surely, is the ultimate test. I did make one supposition that you didn't address that might still guide my buying decision: Granted, you were arguing something different, which is that the color of the wrapper may hint at the burn quality. I was proposing that the color of the wrapper may hint at the flavor profile. Are cigars with lighter wrappers typically milder in flavor purely to set customer expectations? I bet we could come up with several exceptions, Cohiba being the most obvious, but would you say that is true on average?

Thank you Paul for your contribution to this thread! I love your reasoned style of argumentation. I'd like to explore further your arguments in support of the conviction that the "The direct influence of the wrapper on taste in a cigar is negligible." I'm not saying he's wrong or that I disagree, I'm just not convinced either way yet and would like to dissect it further. For some reason, the articles and books I've read generally cite a range of flavor contribution of 30-60% from wrapper, though I've never seen any evidence presented. To enumerate the claims: The wrapper makes up a small fraction of a cigar. Wrappers are not selected for taste, they are selected for looks. The burn properties of a wrapper strongly influence the whole burn of the cigar. A certain colouration may give a hint to the texture, thickness and burn properties of said wrapper. #1 is probably the most quantifiable. The statement can be restated as - the wrapper leaf imparts less perceivable flavor compounds than the tobacco in the filler. Probably not going to get that number unless you work in a lab. You can, however, at least measure the grams for each component by dissecting a cigar. If anyone has those numbers, I'd be very grateful if they could share. I'm sure the wrapper would be a small percentage as Paul says. Of course, the raw weight is not an exact measure for how much flavor is contributed by each, since concentrations vary. Another way to test this would be to create several cigars with the same filler and other components, but different wrappers. The article I mentioned above did exactly that in the Davidoff factory (link here). Just one small experiment, but so far it's the only one we have mentioned. #2 can be determined by asking the cigar producers. I'm sure the answer varies, but I'd like to hear some anyway. I'd bet that it's a combination of both looks and flavor. #3 can be tested by using several wrappers and judging difference in quality. #4 is a good point. Even if the wrapper itself doesn't contribute too much flavor, are the characteristics of the wrapper representative or correlated with the properties of the cigar as a whole? Again something that would probably be best answered by asking producers, since they construct the blend. I'm guessing they'll say that it makes sense to calibrate consumer expectations. Brewers would rarely make a black beer and make it taste fruity instead of the expected roasty/chocolaty (they could technically, but it would annoy a lot of customers). Again, not saying that I disagree with Paul's statements, just providing some counter-arguments for a constructive conversation. Thanks all!

ugh, I had written so much more ready to send mathematically, but others beat me to it and PigFish admitted defeat . Thanks for the support, guys! Just wanted to add, this ratio is very well studied in cylindrical objects other than cigars. For example, wine/whiskey barrels. The wider the barrel, the lower the relative exposure of the liquid inside the barrel to air. The smaller the barrel, the higher the air exposure and the more influence the wood cask has on the flavor of the liquid.

PigFish, you are correct that the ratio of circumference to diameter is pi. However, the ratio of interest is the surface area (wrapper) to volume (filler). In the case of a cylinder, this is the same as the ratio of the circumference to area. The length of the cigar does not affect this, merely the girth. Area: pi*r^2 Circumference: 2*pi*r circumference / area = 2*pi*r / pi*r^2 = 2 / r This ratio gets smaller as the radius increases, and increases as the radius decreases. Hence, the thinner the cigar, the more contribution the wrapper will have to its flavor.

It's not subjective... The wrapper's contribution to flavor can be quantified. Obviously it will depend on the shape of the cigar (the thinner the cigar, the more the wrapper will contribute), the tobacco used, and other factors. In a mild and thin cigar, the wrapper choice will matter quite a bit. Here's a great article series examining this very question: http://www.stogiefresh.info/edu-tobacco/articles/wrapper-contributes-pt-01.html http://www.stogiefresh.info/edu-tobacco/articles/wrapper-contributes-pt-02.html http://www.stogiefresh.info/edu-tobacco/articles/wrapper-contributes-pt-03.html

PigFish, aren't some cigars intentially made with lighter wrappers? Even with some variability, the range will be lighter on those. And won't that have an effect on flavor? Now, granted the "honey and vanilla" was too restrictive, i was realy using that as an example of flavors more often noticed in lighter cigars. You don't have a favorite "paler" cigar when you're in the mood? PS. I'm not saying darker cigars are somehow inferior, i like all shades of the cigar rainbow.

What other light wrapper cigars would you recommend? I didn't mean to say that I'm only looking for that exact flavor profile, just giving examples. I just want to try cigars without the caramelly, coffee flavors found in darker wrappers.

What recommendations do you guys have for Cuban cigars that have a lighter wrapper?

PigFish, so to clarify: you think that placing my cigars in this 18 bottle cooler would be bad for cigars because of temperature variability? What if I'm careful about where I place them (away from the coils)?