Cohiba - Aging Questions

[moryc]

My Cohiba collections has been slowly growing over the years and some of my boxes are starting to hit the 3 year mark. I have been sampling them and I have noticed an improvement over time. I know that typical aging time for Cohiba is 3-5 years. I have read members say that start trying them at 3 years and smoke them when you like them. However, being fairly new to the CC hobby I don't know how good can a Cohiba get. My main reason for asking this question is that I have a box of Siglo VI (LUB NOV 13). I have sampled two cigars out of the cabinet over time and they are amazing cigars and I could smoke through them right now. I don't want to burn through the box when they hit the 3 or 5 year mark, but rather keep them for special occasions. My question are:

How much "legs" do Cohibas have?

Would they improve up to the 10 year mark?

Is there a difference between aging the Linea Clasica and Linea 1492?

Apart from the Siglo VI, my stash also includes the following:

Siglo I

Siglo III

Siglo IV

Robustos

I am planning expand my Cohiba stash by adding these this year (if become available and pending funding):

Siglo II

Lanceros

Pyramides

Any input from the more experienced would be greatly appreciated. If you have experiences with aging any of the above, please provide input as well.

Thanks!

[Oldmso54]

Can't help you on the aging question but I will give you PROPS for your current stash and future desires. I love the Cohiba line and you've darn well got it covered!!

[garbandz]

Since Cuba changed the way they age and produce cigars in 2003,it has been a concern whether or not Cuban cigars would age like they did before '03.

Certainly more recent Cohiba and other Cubans have been more readily smokeable at an earlier age,but the time line has not established itself for current cigars.

Fortunately you have been monitoring your stash,and have noticed improvement,I think you will need to continue with your efforts,and look for any indication of declining taste in your cigars.

I really hope there will be improvement up to and past ten years.

This is really all you can do in any case.

I have had Cohiba and other Cubans with 5 to 10 years of age,and they all have been excellent smokes.

They had some of the characteristics I have found in pre 2003 aged cigars.

I doubt they will compare directly however since the type of tobacco has changed,as well as fertilizers,production methods,etc.

[PigFish]

What do you have to smoke instead? Do you sit down and think, I should have smoked one of my Cohibas, but did not because you think you are missing something by not waiting? Would you choose a second rate cigar in order to save these for a day that might never come?

Don't take it personal, but if you say yes, then I think you are cheating yourself via a flawed mindset. Frankly, you could be dead tomorrow! Don't take that personally, please. But saving your cigars for your wake is a damn dumb idea as far as I am concerned.

You should partake in any cigar that suits your tastes and timeframe when you have the desire to smoke it. What are you waiting for, some magic 'myth' about a cigar/age formula? Some consensus, a plurality to give you permission??? Not this kid brother!

Frankly, if they are good there is no reason not to smoke them, accept that you just don't want to smoke one today. I see sitting on cigars for no reason other than the year that they were boxed as an absolute silly way to approach smoking.... What can I say, that is the way I feel about it?

-Piggy

[JohnS]

Some excellent questions specific to Cohiba. My response is based on my own experience, so the views of other enthusiasts, even if differing to mine, are nevertheless equally valid.

Firstly, there are examples of recent Cohiba which have been great young. Personally, I have greatly enjoyed some ULA Dic 13 Piramides Extras, MUO May 14 COROs and ARG Jun 15 Siglo VIs. In fact, I plan to smoke another young Siglo VI this week, and I'm confident it will be a pleasure to smoke when I do so.

However, if I chose to age these Piramides Extras, COROs and Siglo VI's, I'm also confident that they would have the 'legs' to improve up to the 10 year mark. I have also recently smoked some aged Siglos, ranging from 10 to 12 years, and found that they were consistently flavoursome, creamy, smooth and smoke output was outstanding. Basically, they had all the hallmarks you'd look for in an aged cigar. I plan to have a PLM Nov 2006 Siglo VI tomorrow and am hoping for the same.

In my mind, I found aged Linea 1492 more milder than aged Linea Clasica, however it's not something I've actively considered to compare too closely.

For me, there's something almost mystical in an aged Cohiba with a standard ring gauge. 2/3 of an inch, an ash length of an inch minimum, and Cohiba grass/honey and cream. The Corona Grande Siglo III is the type of cigar I admire the most, perfect length, perfect ring gauge and perfectly satisfying when 'on'.

[El Presidente]

Following on from Piggy.

Take whatever rating system you want

If I have a cigar/box of cigars that is giving me great utility........say a 94 point cigar. Bar a few sticks, I won't be guessing if they will get any better. I will smoke through the majority of them.

There are a few exceptions. I tend to age my expensive cigars more....only because I am a tight arse. The Bushido I am loving, but I see a big upside down the road. Not so much that they will become remarkably better but I foresee an evolution in flavour that will fit my palate. Siglo VI I do the same. 3-4 years and they resonate with me. Actually, almost any Cohiba.

Ramon Allones Club Allones is another. Can't wait to see them in 3-5 years. I think there is something special in there and I am interested to see it.

I will age RASS cabs and pretty much any premium cab. I don't age RASS dress boxes. When I say I don't age, I don't go beyond 12 months normally.

I age most SLR bar Regio. Again, there is an evolution there that I can predict and enjoy.

I also don't age any BBF, BPC, D4, JLS 1/2, HDM E1, Shorts, lusi, VR etc. If they are smoking well (and invariably they do), they are in my rotation.

[El Presidente]

For me, there's something almost mystical in an aged Cohiba with a standard ring gauge. 2/3 of an inch, an ash length of an inch minimum, and Cohiba grass/honey and cream. The Corona Grande Siglo III is the type of cigar I admire the most, perfect length, perfect ring gauge and perfectly satisfying when 'on'.

Bingo

[Randolph]

Following on from Piggy.

Take whatever rating system you want

If I have a cigar/box of cigars that is giving me great utility........say a 94 point cigar. Bar a few sticks, I won't be guessing if they will get any better. I will smoke through the majority of them.

There are a few exceptions. I tend to age my expensive cigars more....only because I am a tight arse. The Bushido I am loving, but I see a big upside down the road. Not so much that they will become remarkably better but I foresee an evolution in flavour that will fit my palate. Siglo VI I do the same. 3-4 years and they resonate with me. Actually, almost any Cohiba.

Ramon Allones Club Allones is another. Can't wait to see them in 3-5 years. I think there is something special in there and I am interested to see it.

I will age RASS cabs and pretty much any premium cab. I don't age RASS dress boxes. When I say I don't age, I don't go beyond 12 months normally.

I age most SLR bar Regio. Again, there is an evolution there that I can predict and enjoy.

I also don't age any BBF, BPC, D4, JLS 1/2, HDM E1, Shorts, lusi, VR etc. If they are smoking well (and invariably they do), they are in my rotation.

Great advice. Many thanks.

[BonVivant]

The revelation about aging cigars, in general, Cohiba included

A great cigar + age = classic

A poor cigar + age = aged garbage?

My suggestion is to try 2013 brands from Mother Factories..

[planetary]

Seems like we have have a few scenarios under which we may age cigars:

(1) a consistently excellent cigar, but you are experienced enough to suspect strong up-side, or merely curious

(2) a cigar which is too strong or robust today, and needs time to mellow and mature

(3) a cigar which is partially great today, but has imperfections (e.g. a harsh final third) which may abate with time

(4) cigars that are accidentally or coincidentally left unsmoked (e.g. our smoking pace is too slow, or we forgot about the box in the back of a humidor, etc.)

My pipe tobacco cellar and my humidor both contain tins/boxes held for all of these reasons. I enjoy the dilettante-science part of our little hobby, and I buy accordingly. Makes life interesting and creates variety now and down the road.

[Mattygukas]

I agree with Prez (except I think BBFs get soo much better with more than three years on them).

Now the difficult problem is when you get a really young Cohiba that is already awesome... My newest box of CoRos I tasted at 6 months old and they were amazing. So I may need to check them faster than I normally would because they are already so good. (96 on my scale) Decisions decisions.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[joeypots]

My experience is that Cohiba shines with age. I haven't smoked any recent ones and they may well be great young cigars. I tend to hold them back longer than most and I like to save them for special times when I can really enjoy the cigar. I can't afford a regular rotation of Cohiba, that's for sure, so it's not too hard to age them. If your cigars are good now, smoke them. But, the Cohibas I have from last decade are the bomb. Big time.

[RijkdeGooier]

I almost exclusively smoke aged Cohiba if I smoke Cohiba.

That would mean 10 years of age or older.

They are the marca that improves most wuth age for me.

Some early 80's early 90's just blew me away.

[cigaraholic]

To your questions, to me cohiba's can have very long legs, sometimes well past 10 years and the clasica line usually is more powerful.

As I'm sure you finding out, the nice thing about cigars is there's no rules....maybe one....don't put the lit end in your mouth

Some boxes of Cohiba's seem to get better with age, others don't...madding!

If something's smoking well, we all have a hard time keeping our hands off them. I've had plenty of boxes that I wish I'd smoked younger. Not that they turned into garbage, but I enjoyed the younger flavors more. Only you know when a cigar hits your sweet spot.

Cigar's are great, young and old.

Enjoy the ride!

[NSXCIGAR]

My opinion on aging is mixed and always has been...

In regards to Cohiba, my personal experience is that they continually improve with age. This does not mean that they (or any cigar) always and in all cases improves measurably with age. What I mean is that they change in a straight-line fashion. In other words, there's no regression in quality with age. I've never had an "expired" Cohiba. They generally have legs for the long-term. I'd have no hesitation aging a Cohiba for 20+ years. Same could not be said for RG, Hoyo, SLR, QdO or Fonseca. I've smoked plenty of "expired" examples of them at the 10-15 year mark.

As others have mentioned, a lousy cigar will almost always end up a lousy aged cigar. Garbage in, garbage out. I have always felt that age really serves to mellow out a cigar, removing tannic harshness or roughness present, if any. A perfect example of this is a cab of 97 Punch SS 1 I had. It took 10+ years for them to begin to lose the tannic harshness they had.

Ideally, aging brings some of the more subtle flavors out of the background and into the fore. But the actual changes or improvements to flavor can be very, very subtle, and not always noticeable.

And as Piggy notes, I'd never sacrifice a cigar I enjoy smoking now for aging with unknown results. In an ideal world, I'd buy 3 boxes of everything I like. One to smoke now, one to smoke as it ages, and one to long-term age. But if something smokes good now, I generally smoke it, and don't worry about it.

[PigFish]

... a contrarian view!

I age garbage...! Really!

While I hoard everything (referring to cigars) what is intentionally kept (and not smoked) are the cigars that suck! Yes, the Cubans make some lousy cigars and every once in a while Piggy gets stuck with a box.

I can only recall throwing a couple of boxes away... I should likely have tossed a lot more. Or, of course I could sell them to someone (this appears to be what others do, but I am not much of a follower)... While people certainly have different tastes than I do, I cannot see swindling a guy on a secondary purchase of cigars that I think stink. Call it ethics, call it stupid, call it what you want, I call it being an honest guy! So I keep them... Ahhh yes, I age them... -LOL

With the desire to not swindle people with these cigars that suck, I am more or less stuck with them... I don't smoke them, not while I can smoke a good cigar instead. They age as a result. Maybe calling this aging is not fair to the populist opinion of aging... Now that is a topic to debate another day! Maybe I 'forget them.' Maybe I am just hoping to forget them....? Hell, I don't know.

I smoke the good cigars when I recognize that they are good to smoke. And yes, I age cigars too! But me, I age the garbage!!!

Carry on!

-Piggy

[Zigatoh]

To add to piggy 's comment in a way, how many cigars that had no following at all when young, suddenly garner cult status when aged - mostly of course due to rarity or being discontinued at which point they miraculously improve no end... Maybe those sucky cigars are actually an untapped goldmine?

[PigFish]

To add to piggy 's comment in a way, how many cigars that had no following at all when young, suddenly garner cult status when aged - mostly of course due to rarity or being discontinued at which point they miraculously improve no end... Maybe those sucky cigars are actually an untapped goldmine?

To your point... nobody (rhetorically) wanted Diplomatico 1, 3, 4, and 5 when I was hoarding them up... No one cared about the loss of the RAPC, nor much the Partages coronas, PC and lonsdale, not the mainstream anyway! From my end, the perspective has nothing to do with age.

While my opinions run upstream on many things in and out of cigars, I have always felt that many 'mainstream' cigar smokers miss the real gems in the cigar world.

Cheers! -Piggy

[moryc]

I would like to thank everyone for providing their input in this thread. As always this place a wealth of information.

Since Cuba changed the way they age and produce cigars in 2003,it has been a concern whether or not Cuban cigars would age like they did before '03.

Certainly more recent Cohiba and other Cubans have been more readily smokeable at an earlier age,but the time line has not established itself for current cigars.

Fortunately you have been monitoring your stash,and have noticed improvement,I think you will need to continue with your efforts,and look for any indication of declining taste in your cigars.

I really hope there will be improvement up to and past ten years.

This is really all you can do in any case.

I have had Cohiba and other Cubans with 5 to 10 years of age,and they all have been excellent smokes.

They had some of the characteristics I have found in pre 2003 aged cigars.

I doubt they will compare directly however since the type of tobacco has changed,as well as fertilizers,production methods,etc.

Some excellent questions specific to Cohiba. My response is based on my own experience, so the views of other enthusiasts, even if differing to mine, are nevertheless equally valid.

Firstly, there are examples of recent Cohiba which have been great young. Personally, I have greatly enjoyed some ULA Dic 13 Piramides Extras, MUO May 14 COROs and ARG Jun 15 Siglo VIs. In fact, I plan to smoke another young Siglo VI this week, and I'm confident it will be a pleasure to smoke when I do so.

However, if I chose to age these Piramides Extras, COROs and Siglo VI's, I'm also confident that they would have the 'legs' to improve up to the 10 year mark. I have also recently smoked some aged Siglos, ranging from 10 to 12 years, and found that they were consistently flavoursome, creamy, smooth and smoke output was outstanding. Basically, they had all the hallmarks you'd look for in an aged cigar. I plan to have a PLM Nov 2006 Siglo VI tomorrow and am hoping for the same.

In my mind, I found aged Linea 1492 more milder than aged Linea Clasica, however it's not something I've actively considered to compare too closely.

For me, there's something almost mystical in an aged Cohiba with a standard ring gauge. 2/3 of an inch, an ash length of an inch minimum, and Cohiba grass/honey and cream. The Corona Grande Siglo III is the type of cigar I admire the most, perfect length, perfect ring gauge and perfectly satisfying when 'on'.

To your questions, to me cohiba's can have very long legs, sometimes well past 10 years and the clasica line usually is more powerful.

As I'm sure you finding out, the nice thing about cigars is there's no rules....maybe one....don't put the lit end in your mouth

Some boxes of Cohiba's seem to get better with age, others don't...madding!

If something's smoking well, we all have a hard time keeping our hands off them. I've had plenty of boxes that I wish I'd smoked younger. Not that they turned into garbage, but I enjoyed the younger flavors more. Only you know when a cigar hits your sweet spot.

Cigar's are great, young and old.

Enjoy the ride!

My opinion on aging is mixed and always has been...

In regards to Cohiba, my personal experience is that they continually improve with age. This does not mean that they (or any cigar) always and in all cases improves measurably with age. What I mean is that they change in a straight-line fashion. In other words, there's no regression in quality with age. I've never had an "expired" Cohiba. They generally have legs for the long-term. I'd have no hesitation aging a Cohiba for 20+ years. Same could not be said for RG, Hoyo, SLR, QdO or Fonseca. I've smoked plenty of "expired" examples of them at the 10-15 year mark.

As others have mentioned, a lousy cigar will almost always end up a lousy aged cigar. Garbage in, garbage out. I have always felt that age really serves to mellow out a cigar, removing tannic harshness or roughness present, if any. A perfect example of this is a cab of 97 Punch SS 1 I had. It took 10+ years for them to begin to lose the tannic harshness they had.

Ideally, aging brings some of the more subtle flavors out of the background and into the fore. But the actual changes or improvements to flavor can be very, very subtle, and not always noticeable.

And as Piggy notes, I'd never sacrifice a cigar I enjoy smoking now for aging with unknown results. In an ideal world, I'd buy 3 boxes of everything I like. One to smoke now, one to smoke as it ages, and one to long-term age. But if something smokes good now, I generally smoke it, and don't worry about it.

Thank you for providing some specifics as to what you think are some potential times for aging. I don't think I might be going over the 10 year period, but than again never know.

Following on from Piggy.

Take whatever rating system you want

If I have a cigar/box of cigars that is giving me great utility........say a 94 point cigar. Bar a few sticks, I won't be guessing if they will get any better. I will smoke through the majority of them.

There are a few exceptions. I tend to age my expensive cigars more....only because I am a tight arse. The Bushido I am loving, but I see a big upside down the road. Not so much that they will become remarkably better but I foresee an evolution in flavour that will fit my palate. Siglo VI I do the same. 3-4 years and they resonate with me. Actually, almost any Cohiba.

Ramon Allones Club Allones is another. Can't wait to see them in 3-5 years. I think there is something special in there and I am interested to see it.

I will age RASS cabs and pretty much any premium cab. I don't age RASS dress boxes. When I say I don't age, I don't go beyond 12 months normally.

I age most SLR bar Regio. Again, there is an evolution there that I can predict and enjoy.

I also don't age any BBF, BPC, D4, JLS 1/2, HDM E1, Shorts, lusi, VR etc. If they are smoking well (and invariably they do), they are in my rotation.

I must admit to being a tight arse on the expensive/good cigars as well. I think it might have something to do with growing up on the eastern block behind the iron curtain protecting me from evil capitalism. There was nothing good 99% of the time and when we managed to score anything good once in a blue moon we kept it for special occasions. It was kind of like Cuba is until this day. I think this kind of stuck on me. Thanks for the info about what you age and what you don't age. I think I might pick up a couple of boxes of the Ramon Allones Club Allones if they come around, one to smoke now and one to smoke later.

What do you have to smoke instead? Do you sit down and think, I should have smoked one of my Cohibas, but did not because you think you are missing something by not waiting? Would you choose a second rate cigar in order to save these for a day that might never come?

Don't take it personal, but if you say yes, then I think you are cheating yourself via a flawed mindset. Frankly, you could be dead tomorrow! Don't take that personally, please. But saving your cigars for your wake is a damn dumb idea as far as I am concerned.

You should partake in any cigar that suits your tastes and timeframe when you have the desire to smoke it. What are you waiting for, some magic 'myth' about a cigar/age formula? Some consensus, a plurality to give you permission??? Not this kid brother!

Frankly, if they are good there is no reason not to smoke them, accept that you just don't want to smoke one today. I see sitting on cigars for no reason other than the year that they were boxed as an absolute silly way to approach smoking.... What can I say, that is the way I feel about it?

-Piggy

I can say that I have a decent stash of cigars that I am smoking right now and I enjoy most of the time what I smoke unless of course it is a dud. There are couple of reasons why I asked about aging Cohibas. One is that I remember having Robusto a few in years at Paradisus Rio de Oro in Cuba. There was an employee of the resort that would roll around a cart in the evenings in the lobby and sell cigars. This was the best Cohiba that I ever had. I don't know anything about that cigar, how old it was box code etx. I know is was full of flavour and smooth to the nub. Nothing has come close to that until now. I am hoping that I can achieve something close to that by aging. Second reason is my recent experience with Hoyo de Monterrey Grand Epicure (EL 2013). I had a box and I smoked through except for one stick. It sat in my humidor over the last year and I had it couple of weeks ago. I was blown away and I thought to myself, how much better it was comparing to the ones I had before.

I know that I could be dead tomorrow and should enjoy every day to the fullest. At the same time I don't want to burn through a box of Siglo VI just because I think they taste good, but have them for special occasions and to have a few times a year. At the same time I wanted to know how much legs they have, because I don't want them to fall off the cliff.

[PigFish]

I must admit to being a tight arse on the expensive/good cigars as well. I think it might have something to do with growing up on the eastern block behind the iron curtain protecting me from evil capitalism. There was nothing good 99% of the time and when we managed to score anything good once in a blue moon we kept it for special occasions. It was kind of like Cuba is until this day. I think this kind of stuck on me. Thanks for the info about what you age and what you don't age. I think I might pick up a couple of boxes of the Ramon Allones Club Allones if they come around, one to smoke now and one to smoke later.

While totally off the subject of cigars, I am glad that you are no longer in this situation. I remember reading some about you drinking iodine in a previous thread. My God...

All politics aside, I am very glad that you are in a better place today. If you were closer I would be happy to bring over some 20yo Cohibas and we could enjoy the simple pleasure of freedom!!!

Cheers mate! -Piggy

[Fugu]

Don't take it personal, but if you say yes, then I think you are cheating yourself via a flawed mindset. Frankly, you could be dead tomorrow! Don't take that personally, please. But saving your cigars for your wake is a damn dumb idea as far as I am concerned.

On the other hand, if it finally gets moryc the desired excellent 10- or 15-years aged gems, he will eventually be happy to have done so (and how else would you be able to enjoy such? There is no avail in relying on others doing it for you!). There is always a risk involved, of course - part of the reason why perfectly aged cigars come with a premium - but one cannot generalize and qualify this as being a "dumb" thing to do. I even wouldn't call it gambling, if one has assessed what to keep for aging.

Frankly, if they are good there is no reason not to smoke them, accept that you just don't want to smoke one today.

One reason: The cigars might be good and readily enjoyable now, but they might be excellent to great and a real treat down the road.... Whether this is worth someone taking the risk can only be a very personal decision.

And - you always have the option of doing both. Putting box(es) away for long-term aging, while smoking from other boxes in the meantime for immediate enjoyment while observing their development.

[avaldes]

All good opinions. But there is an even simpler perspective. Buy more than you smoke and you will inherently end up with aged cigars. I have rarely set out to hang on to a box for an extended period of time. There are a few. But in general I bought cigars at a higher rate than I smoked. The result is that your cigars age.

[Orion21]

Don't wait for a specific point in time to start smoking your Cohiba. I have a box of Siglo III from 2007 that I have been smoking for nearly a year. They are fantastic cigars of a perfect size and rg, like JohnS said. I have also been smoking through a box of BTO Siglo VI, that if using conventional wisdom, I wouldn't have touched for another 2-3 years. If I had done that I wouldn't have smoked some of the best cigars I have ever had.

Piggy and I agree on a lot and over the past couple of years he has convinced me of one important point with Cuban cigars:

If they are good now smoke them! If you don't you may waste great cigars hoping they get better, only to find that time has been a cruel mistress. I smoke my cheap cigars, expensive cigars and ridiculously expensive cigars when I feel like it. But like Piggy, I have a hording problem, so I have more cigars than I can possibly smoke in the mid term. I think I have 10 years worth of cigars at my current smoking rate, so the combination of my hording and my lack of time to smoke will "age" my cigars.

[luv2fly]

If I knew I would live to say 90, I would lay down cigars. I don't so I don't lay them down on purpose. By my nature of my smoking, my cigars age a bit.

I personally get the cigars and try one ROTT most times. I let them sit for 30 days and may try another one. Most of my stock gets tried in 6 month intervals by happenstance.

My moto is to enjoy today as tomorrow is promised to no one.

[Zigatoh]

Don't wait for a specific point in time to start smoking your Cohiba. I have a box of Siglo III from 2007 that I have been smoking for nearly a year. They are fantastic cigars of a perfect size and rg, like JohnS said. I have also been smoking through a box of BTO Siglo VI, that if using conventional wisdom, I wouldn't have touched for another 2-3 years. If I had done that I wouldn't have smoked some of the best cigars I have ever had.

Piggy and I agree on a lot and over the past couple of years he has convinced me of one important point with Cuban cigars:

If they are good now smoke them! If you don't you may waste great cigars hoping they get better, only to find that time has been a cruel mistress. I smoke my cheap cigars, expensive cigars and ridiculously expensive cigars when I feel like it. But like Piggy, I have a hording problem, so I have more cigars than I can possibly smoke in the mid term. I think I have 10 years worth of cigars at my current smoking rate, so the combination of my hording and my lack of time to smoke will "age" my cigars.

My only concern with this is that it might be a biased viewpoint that is easier to have when you already age cigars simply due to the quantity you own, I am in the same position, but still find myself wondering which cigars to keep 'just in case '. As a simple solution of sorts I band together and keep five cigars from every box I buy, it's not perfect but gives me both options - smoke most when good/great, keep a handful just to see what happens.

But if you don't have stock for aging I do think it becomes a more difficult decision.