Your RH "sweet spot"

[mgravito]

A question I've always wondered: why the higher RH for aging? Does the higher RH promote some continued fermentation? Is there some break point in temperature and RH where fermentation slows to almost nothing?

[Fugu]

Very keen to hear the answers to that question, too. While I follow my own conjecture as regards storage, I have never come across any written plausible explantation to it so far.

[NapaNolan]

I smoke very slow so overly humidified cigars tend to go out on me. My hygrometer has been reading 61-63 for the last 2 years.

[CanuckSARTech]

A question I've always wondered: why the higher RH for aging? Does the higher RH promote some continued fermentation? Is there some break point in temperature and RH where fermentation slows to almost nothing?

Very keen to hear the answers to that question, too. While I follow my own conjecture as regards storage, I have never come across any written plausible explantation to it so far.

There's something in a few of the cigar books and such. But the long and short of it is this...

The added moisture helps fermentation / aging. Cigars are biological material. This material slowly ages / degrades / decomposes over time with moisture and air. So, sometimes getting the best out of a cigar is to slightly assist aging by keeping them in a moist environment. However, the 3-5% RH higher level may not be the best for someone's smoking tastes, so that's why others dry box or keep a lower RH % for their "ready to smoke" stock.

[ayepatz]

63-65% RH and 18°C

[free85]

I run a freez-a-dor at 63degF - 65degF and 65%rh. Everything seems to taste mighty fine.

[Boosted]

Most every box I have sits around 63% to 65% and 64F to 68F (18 to 20°C).

I pull sticks from the boxes and store them in my ready to smoke humidor at 62rh.

[CigSid]

My three long term aging cabinets are at 68/68 Most of these cigars are 20 plus years old... My two short tern aging cabinets are 68/65, and these are 8 to 15 years old. My two "smoking" cabinets are 68/63, and these are the cigars I am currently smoking with various ages.. I still will dry box before I smoke, at around 60 to 61 percent...

[Anth87]

I'm on the Gold Coast 67% and 26 degrees c storage, 65% smoking desktop humi - I can't get my temp any lower in summer!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JoeyGunz]

I bang 69% boveda packs in all my storage and whenever I check I'm at 65% avg temp 65f.

Sometimes I'll dry box a skinny smoke, also fat ones.

[Corylax18]

El Presidente, and a few others have touched on it, but the R in RH is very important. The air contains more moisture at 70 RH/70 F than it does at 70 RH/60 F.

Colorado is cold and VERY dry during the winter months (10% to 30% RH) so 30 min to an hour after I remove a stick from the Winedaor its given up more than enough moisture to burn well. I often don't wait that long.

The Wineador itself stays between 67% and 69% RH and about 64.5 F (18 C)

In my experience consistent conditions are more important than the exact percentage (within range) the expansion/contraction caused by fluctuating temps and humidity wreaks havoc on the wrapper and binder leaves leading to bigger burn issues than a slightly wet or dry smoke.

[Fugu]

There's something in a few of the cigar books and such. But the long and short of it is this...

The added moisture helps fermentation / aging. Cigars are biological material. This material slowly ages / degrades / decomposes over time with moisture and air. So, sometimes getting the best out of a cigar is to slightly assist aging by keeping them in a moist environment. However, the 3-5% RH higher level may not be the best for someone's smoking tastes, so that's why others dry box or keep a lower RH % for their "ready to smoke" stock.

Exactly, that’s also my take on it. But you often hear people handle it somehow inconsistently or not in a logical way, That’s what I am actually wondering about.

If we agree that we have two main factors influencing aging, being temperature and moisture of tobacco, then: High moisture, high temperatures acting towards faster aging – low temperature, low moisture towards slower aging.

Now, you often hear, “for long-term aging, I store my cigars at higher humidity”, mostly in conjunction with lower temperatures. That doesn’t seem to make much sense, as both is acting in opposite direction. In particular, when it comes to older or even ‘vintage’ cigars, where we are talking about preservation rather than aging. Where any further fermentation or other chemical alteration and aging effects are rather undesired and were preferably to be stopped in the cigars, as we wish to keep them on their peak (to our personal taste preferences of course…). In such instances, one would have to go towards the direction of lower temp and lower humidity, i.e. lower water content of the tobacco.

Therefore, when I wish to age a cigar quickly, say for earlier consumption, then yes, I should go for higher temps and higher humidity. Otherwise, always the lower end of both would be the way to go.

That is the fact I am mostly stumbling on, even in some publications.

That being said, there are limits of course. The mould aspect is quite obvious for high moisture. But the lower end is the more interesting and perhaps the more controversial part: What really is and where starts low moisture in a cigar? Not from a smoking but from a storage point of view, that is.

On the low moisture end, surely a mechanical aspect comes into play, brittleness and structural damaging of cigars. But the moisture also aids in keeping the tobacco oils 'in check'. Those appear to deteriorate more readily in a dry cigar. While I do not dispute that, I couldn’t find anywhere a plausible explanation for why and how this is actually happening. But I suppose, it could be an effect of the particular structural and hygroscopic properties of tobacco tissue in combination with hydrophilic (water) and hydrophobic (oils) interaction, with a somehow protective functionality component of the water content, acting on the oils and perhaps also other, volatile components. I would be happy if someone could enlighten me on that.

So, where in long-term aging, or more precisely put, in preservation of cigars, around which moisture value exactly might be the transition point where the positive effects of low moisture, as there are slowing down fermentation and chemical degradation, outweigh its negative effects of poorer oil preservation?

[puro]

64-67% then dry boxed a night before smoked

[CigSid]

Exactly, that’s also my take on it. But you often hear people handle it somehow inconsistently or not in a logical way, That’s what I am actually wondering about.

If we agree that we have two main factors influencing aging, being temperature and moisture of tobacco, then: High moisture, high temperatures acting towards faster aging – low temperature, low moisture towards slower aging.

Now, you often hear, “for long-term aging, I store my cigars at higher humidity”, mostly in conjunction with lower temperatures. That doesn’t seem to make much sense, as both is acting in opposite direction. In particular, when it comes to older or even ‘vintage’ cigars, where we are talking about preservation rather than aging. Where any further fermentation or other chemical alteration and aging effects are rather undesired and were preferably to be stopped in the cigars, as we wish to keep them on their peak (to our personal taste preferences of course…). In such instances, one would have to go towards the direction of lower temp and lower humidity, i.e. lower water content of the tobacco.

Therefore, when I wish to age a cigar quickly, say for earlier consumption, then yes, I should go for higher temps and higher humidity. Otherwise, always the lower end of both would be the way to go.

That is the fact I am mostly stumbling on, even in some publications.

That being said, there are limits of course. The mould aspect is quite obvious for high moisture. But the lower end is the more interesting and perhaps the more controversial part: What really is and where starts low moisture in a cigar? Not from a smoking but from a storage point of view, that is.

On the low moisture end, surely a mechanical aspect comes into play, brittleness and structural damaging of cigars. But the moisture also aids in keeping the tobacco oils 'in check'. Those appear to deteriorate more readily in a dry cigar. While I do not dispute that, I couldn’t find anywhere a plausible explanation for why and how this is actually happening. But I suppose, it could be an effect of the particular structural and hygroscopic properties of tobacco tissue in combination with hydrophilic (water) and hydrophobic (oils) interaction, with a somehow protective functionality component of the water content, acting on the oils and perhaps also other, volatile components. I would be happy if someone could enlighten me on that.

So, where in long-term aging, or more precisely put, in preservation of cigars, around which moisture value exactly might be the transition point where the positive effects of low moisture, as there are slowing down fermentation and chemical degradation, outweigh its negative effects of poorer oil preservation?

I can only submit, after 20 plus years of storing cigars, that the 68/68 "rule" that I have maintained all these years, is advantageous....

Rob and Ken's remarks about the BCG that I sent them, that they were in really good condition after all these years, can yield some credibility for my process... I also think "stability" plays a very important role...

[Fugu]

I can only submit, after 20 plus years of storing cigars, that the 68/68 "rule" that I have maintained all these years, is advantageous....

Rob and Ken's remarks about the BCG that I sent them, that they were in really good condition after all these years, can yield some credibility for my process... I also think "stability" plays a very important role...

Agreed, environmental stability is a very essential part of the game, Sid. But where do we have to stay best, so to say? Perhaps the broad answer simply is that famous “between 65 and 70% rH”, which Cuba is telling us? With your 68/68 approach you are falling right into the middle of that, and your aged cigars seem to prove that there is certainly nothing wrong with that.

Admitted, probably a rather academic consideration, but there are others who have pondered about it before. Merchants like Gérard or Sahkian who are into long-term aging, as well as a wide range of private collectors. They all elaborated their own ways of perfect cigar preservation and storage.

What I am interested in, perhaps from a purely scientific point of view (and less so driven by my own practical implementation), what would be the best for preserving tobacco, and more importantly – why – would this be so? Therefore, I’d love to learn about the views of other members in the know in this matter.

[stogieluver]

My take from this great thread and others is this: at a constant temp, store immediate smoking stock at upper 50's to lower 60's rh; and for long term aging stock, store around 68% rh and a higher temp. Am I correct on this?

I store my CC's in a set/forget Aristocrat, and forever, I stored my CC's at 65% with temps in my centrally heated/cooled home in a narrow range year round of 68F to 72F. With that rh, I had a lot of relighting problems with larger ring gauge sticks. After reading El Prez's post recently that he stored his smoking stock between 55% and 58% (in effect a constant dry box), I recently lowered my set/forget digital control unit to 60%, and I've had no relighting issues and the sticks taste much better. I have to add here that I live on the gulf coast of the southern U. S. where outdoor rh averages in the 90-100% range almost year round, and that, and the mosquitos, drove me to create a man cave in my home and I now smoke exclusively indoors where the rh is an almost constant 55% rh.

So, with over 1300 sticks, most of which I am trying to age at least five years, at the lower rh of 60%, that's going to drastically slow down the aging process. Would you agree with that? If so, maybe that's why the recommended rh is 65%, a happy medium.

[CBMC]

El Presidente, and a few others have touched on it, but the R in RH is very important. The air contains more moisture at 70 RH/70 F than it does at 70 RH/60 F.

Colorado is cold and VERY dry during the winter months (10% to 30% RH) so 30 min to an hour after I remove a stick from the Winedaor its given up more than enough moisture to burn well. I often don't wait that long.

The Wineador itself stays between 67% and 69% RH and about 64.5 F (18 C)

In my experience consistent conditions are more important than the exact percentage (within range) the expansion/contraction caused by fluctuating temps and humidity wreaks havoc on the wrapper and binder leaves leading to bigger burn issues than a slightly wet or dry smoke.

While the air does hold more moisture at higher temperatures, I have found that cigars actually absorb more moisture at lower Temps.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

[Easttide]

Interesting observation, hope it's not too far off track.

I have a big Tupperdore with about 20 boxes in there holding very steady with Boveda packs at 69%. I take them all out once a week, fondle them (ahem) and let them get some air while I choose what I'm going to smoke for the weekend.

After some helpful advice from this thread I took some of my smaller ring stuff out, about 5 boxes, and put them in a smaller box with 62% packs. I checked on them today and was amazed to find they had only dropped to 67% in 5 days. It's about 60 degrees and 30% in my basement.

Nothing more than an observation, but it was interesting to me how slowly they are adjusting. Puts some perspective into shipping, etc.

[mrsgucia]

For sub 46 gauge I run at 58-62 RH ..... Ja, das its GUT!!!

Im sure this is the post where we all can learn somthing about proper storage.

[backslide]

I store mine between 65%-67%

[Narhcoc]

I keep mine at 66% - 68% for storage. I find that NC's tend to smoke pretty well at the low end of that range, but CC's require some dry boxing to get the most out of them.