Montecristo No 2 Light Vs Dark Wrapper Part 2

[greenpimp]

Wow. Well there you have it. Incredible.

I gotta tell ya, I am very surprised. I never thought wrapper imparted that substantial a difference. I guess it is the garlic in the stew.

[tapewormboy]

Great review!

There's always been so much debate about how much flavor the wrapper actually gives to the cigar. This experiment shows that it is a substantial amount. Prez...would you be willing to guess a percent that the wrapper altered the flavor profile?

Perhaps now we can also roughly judge the potential for aging based on wrapper color?

[Professor Twain]

The Mad Scientist strikes again. Very informative.

You did another review along these lines, switching a Cohiba Maduro wrapper with a Cohiba Robusto I believe, that also showed that the wrapper exerts a major influence on the cigar.

Thanks for another informative review. You know of course that we are all going to be asking for you to pick dark boxes for our future orders.

[El Presidente]

» Great review!

»

» There's always been so much debate about how much flavor the wrapper

» actually gives to the cigar. This experiment shows that it is a

» substantial amount. Prez...would you be willing to guess a percent that

» the wrapper altered the flavor profile?

»

» Perhaps now we can also roughly judge the potential for aging based on

» wrapper color?

Keep in mind that we are talking here of the same blend. So....same binder and filler.

Now think of a lets say a great steak sandwich. Same steak, medium rare, same lettuce, same slice of cheese, same onion ring but the bun for one is a straight white bun and the other a wholemeal bun. I suspect the flavour experience would also be completely different. Swap buns and you would have the same result as this wrapper experiment.

What threw me was the influence on the "body" of the cigar. Here is where the effect of the wrapper had a substantial altering effect way beyond what I had expected. The lighter wrapper (in this experiment) adds depth to the body making it fuller in flavour (not saying the flavour was good) on the palate and pushing it to medium/medium full. The lighter wrapper was the oilier wrapper of the two.

As for ageing time will tell. I suspect the lighter oilier wrapper will age better than the darker wrapper although I prefer the darker wrapper to smoke right now.

This is a continuing experiment :-) Unfortunately we should allow 12 months before the next installment.

As for what % difference the wrapper made to the cigar...in this instance the change was total. Yes, you knew you were smoking a Monte 2 regardless of which wrapper was smoked.....but you were smoking two completely different Monte 2's.

[El Presidente]

» The Mad Scientist strikes again. Very informative.

»

» You did another review along these lines, switching a Cohiba Maduro

» wrapper with a Cohiba Robusto I believe, that also showed that the wrapper

» exerts a major influence on the cigar.

»

» Thanks for another informative review. You know of course that we are all

» going to be asking for you to pick dark boxes for our future orders.

Professor I will do a tasting of the Cohiba Wrapper exchanges tomorrow :-)

It is important not to shortchange the lighter wrapper. I would still put money on it to become the better cigar in 12-24 months time. I believe it has a little more "substance" for the longer term but in its youth it came up against a wrapper (dark) which is great now but I doubt it has much more to offer.

[shrink]

Over the years, I have read many opinions regarding the relative contributions of the wrapper, it's color, thickness, age, etc.

This is the first 'controlled' experiment that I have heard of. And yes, the results are nothing less than astounding. Not only does the wrapper 'color' impact flavor, but apparently body as well.

I know that this doesn't end the controversy, but it sure adds a bit of substance to all the hot air.

[SonGoku]

Very interesting experiment.

[Ginseng]

» Over the years, I have read many opinions regarding the relative

» contributions of the wrapper, it's color, thickness, age, etc.

»

» This is the first 'controlled' experiment that I have heard of. And yes,

» the results are nothing less than astounding. Not only does the wrapper

» 'color' impact flavor, but apparently body as well.

»

» I know that this doesn't end the controversy, but it sure adds a bit of

» substance to all the hot air.

Seconded! This post and the entire series of related investigations are invaluable and unparalleled in the cigar world. Only on FOH, mates.

Wilkey

[strayvector]

»

» It is important not to shortchange the lighter wrapper. I would still put

» money on it to become the better cigar in 12-24 months time. I believe it

» has a little more "substance" for the longer term but in its youth it came

» up against a wrapper (dark) which is great now but I doubt it has much more

» to offer.

Thanks for the experiment, Rob. Incredibly interesting and possibly echoes the preferences of a couple of friends of mine. Both friends smoke 2-3 cigars a day, but one smokes them fresh and the other ages his smokes for at least 2-3 years. The friend that smokes them young always requests dark wrappers and the one who ages, always asks for lighter wrappers. One says the darker wrapper exhibits sweeter and smoother characteristics, while the one who ages says that the darker wrappers seem to be more muted in flavors and borders on boring. Their preferences have influenced me to ask Lisa for dark wrappers on cigars I intend to smoke young (PSD4, eRDM CS) and lighter wrappers on the few boxes that I intend to lay down for naps (Cohiba). Thanks for the preliminary confirmation of our preferences.

[El Presidente]

» Seconded! This post and the entire series of related investigations are

» invaluable and unparalleled in the cigar world. Only on FOH, mates.

»

» Wilkey

Thanks Guys. It is really a pleasure to run these tests. I am learning as much as you.

[stever]

Well done.

I have two Monte 2 10 boxes with the same box code, with one box containing nice dark wrappers, and the other containing light wrappers, but perhaps not quite as light as what you tested. You've inspired me to conduct my own comparison taste test.

I'm in agreement with you regarding the dark Monte 2, very smokeable and enjoyeable, even with less than a year of age. I'll soon have to smoke the lighter one, which smells more pungent and, I'd say, looks more oily.

[Wiley]

I am completely floored by what a beautiful job Yasmel did of re-wrapping these cigars!

[jdbrown]

I guess this could or may explain why my darker, aged Monte 2's are now bland and pitchable. Dont know boxcode but showed great promise at first. Now..not any better than field hay at 3 years of age.

[Miami101]

El Prez

Is there a way to get a box of Dark Monte 2 only?

[El Presidente]

» El Prez

» Is there a way to get a box of Dark Monte 2 only?

Ask Lisa to keep an eye out for one.

Again keep in mind the following:

1. Not all Dark wrappers are the same. Some are smooth with a cocoa/tobacco aroma. Others are dark and coarse and quite bitter to the taste.

2. Not all light wrappers are the same. Some are oily almost "waxy" and others quite dry to the touch and sometimes have a sandpapery feel.

Each wrapper imparts a differing taste.

[Claudius]

IMO this was to be expected (see my response in the Maduro wrapper thread), but possibly not to this extend.

I'd also like to say that I believe (like in religion, no proof, just a gut feeling, perhaps due to experience) that there are several "qualities" of wrapper:

- maduro / maduro oscuro and oily (my favorite)

- colorado and oily

- maduro or maduro scuro not oily

- colorado not oily

- all the lighter shades, usually never oily

I believe the "oils" contain a lot of what gives the wrapper the taste, or say brings it out, and that colour, although important, is not as important as the oily characteristic.

The "dry" wrapper cigars usually taste sharper to me. They also tend to burn better, fuller, when the oil in the oily wrappers seems to hinder combustion (but enhance flavour).

[asc]

This was an amazing series of posts...a lot of questions come to mind after reading this.

[El Presidente]

Montecristo No 2 Light Vs Dark Wrapper Part 2

This post is reminiscent of that great sitcom “Soap” :-D

In a previous episode we received a 10 count box of Montecristo No 2’s. Well rolled cigars but packed by a Cuban with either a great sense of humour or a colour disorder.

Struggling with ways to justify my existence to the Queen of Darkness (Lisa), I concocted an experiment whereby I would taste both a dark and light wrapper Monte 2 and then swap wrappers and run a taste test again in an effort to add further evidence to the age old Havanophile question as to how much influence the wrapper has on the taste of a cigar. This box of Montecristo No 2’s provided the perfect opportunity as we have both light and dark wrappers within the same box hence same box code, same production run.

Enter Yasmel our Cuban roller with a penchant for XXXX beer, blonde women, heavy metal music and big steaks. After having posted my initial tastings on the light and dark wrappered cigars, I had him swap wrappers on cigars from the box of Montecristo No 2’s. When swapping wrappers he did not “wet them down” in order that further moisture did alter the final tasting.

It is pertinent to read the initial reviews here.

http://www.friendsofhabanos.com/board_entr...id=64936#p64936

In summary of the initial tastings.

Dark Wrapper Monte 2

The cigar holds its flavour profile right to the very end. It has all the characteristics of a Monte 2 but as stated previously perhaps missing a few % in the body stakes. It has complexity, good burn, great aroma. I would certainly smoke this cigar on a regular basis when I wanted a sweeter profile cigar. There are days that I yearn for cocoa and chocolate in a cigar. This Monte 2 reminds me of a lighter version of the Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios but with 30% less body.

I enjoyed it. 89

Lighter wrapper Monte 2

This cigar is now fuller than the darker Monte 2 at the same point. In many ways it is a more complex cigar but it is not as well balanced. I can only guess that it has a great deal of improvement left in it and I couldn't say the same for "Monte Dark". The Lighter Monte is still evolving...still trying to work out what it wants to be when it grows up. Its darker brother has already got its career planned and knows exactly what it wants to be.

In the last few inches the Monte throws a tantrum. Medium bodied still but the Cream, shortbread and milk coffee have their party crashed by a return of sourness and her sister bitterness. I am not overly disappointed as I like a little rebellion in a young cigar. Keeps me guessing as to whether we have a flawed genius in the making or a dud who will self destruct later in life.

87

Summary

The darker wrapper of the initial tasting imparted a sweet cocoa note which was its strength and its Achilles heel. Light medium bodied, the cigar was both smooth and sweet very reminiscent of a lighter styled Cohiba Maduro 5 Genios pr a fuller bodied Padron Anniversario. I enjoyed it but wondered as to its ageing ability.

The lighter wrapper Montecristo No 2 was fuller in body with a cloaked complexity, cloaked essentially by a predominant sourness but toward the mid point the cigar showed cream, biscuit, milk coffee, mushrooms and dry grass stalks before the sourness returned in the back third to ruin the experience. I liked the light wrappered Monte 2’s ageing potential more.

****************************************************

Fast forward to today’s experiment.

I tasted the re wrappered Light and Dark Montecristo Number 2 over consecutive days.

I was intrigued to see whether:

1. The sourness initially experienced by the light wrappered Monte 2 was indeed attributed to the lighter wrapper used.

2. The cocoa laden flavours could be attributed to the darker wrapper.

3. Was there a blend difference in the cigars remembering that there was certainly a difference in body and strength (Lighter –fuller stronger than the darker)?

4. Would we end up with completely different smoking experiences?

Conclusion

Having smoked both re wrappered cigars I am stunned to say the least. I didn’t expect to find what I did and there is no reason to go into lengthy reviews of both tastings.

What found was that the initial tastings were completely reversed. The application of the lighter wrapper on the darker wrappered cigar had the same flavours and dominant sourness of my initial light wrapper tastings. The body of the cigar was fuller, the flavours muted but came good in the second third with predominant cream, shortbread, milk coffee, mushrooms and dry grass before the sourness returned into the final third accompanied by a slight bitterness. I would have scored the cigar an 87 with high potential for ageing.

The application of the dark wrapper on the original lighter wrappered cigar had the mirror opposite effect! The cigar was all cocoa and cream in a light medium bodied style. The aroma was all sweet chocolate spices. No great complexity but very enjoyable. I would have no problem rating it an 89 with a caveat of questionable ageing potential on the basis of its lighter bodied style.

I can conclude that the blend was 99% the same used in the four cigars from this box. The flavour and body differences are 100% attributable to the differing wrappers alone.

What I cannot conclude is which will age better. But having three each of the differing wrappered cigars remaining, I will do follow up tastings at 12 month intervals.

[Fatshotbud]

Been 12 months - (foot tapping sound)

Some great stuff - curious to see where they have gone in 12 months.......

Thanks for your efforts Rob!

[hueynova]

Great review, incredible insight, and creative thinking to do a wrapper swap.

BUT, MORE IMPORTANT....who are those babes with your roller friend??

:-)

[rckymtn22]

Having just re-read the post I see that the 12 month anniversary has just passed. Looks like we will have to remind the El Presidente to try the stored sticks to see if any changes.

[Ken Gargett]

Great review, incredible insight, and creative thinking to do a wrapper swap.

BUT, MORE IMPORTANT....who are those babes with your roller friend??

:-)

sadly, those girls were 'hired' for the night. purely hostesses, i believe.

interesting post. i pulled out a monte 2 the other night from some singles at the bottom of a humidor. could not believe how dark it was. early LE dark. good smoke as well, though apols as i didn't take serious notes.

[El Presidente]

sadly, those girls were 'hired' for the night. purely hostesses, i believe.

They knocked Ken back

[Fumadoro]

This is the most controled and thorough wrapper properties experiment I have read. This really changes my perception on how much a wrapper can change the characteristics of a cigar.

[samb]

Interesting experiment. Thanks for the bump. I wouldnt have thought that the wrapper played such a strong roll in the cigar's profile.